Learning a language for a hobby is retarded

[OriginalRen]

You know, a person who chooses to learn a language has every right to choose why they want to learn a language. The fact they want to take the time to learn a language, even if it's just for a single core skill (reading, writing, listening, speaking), makes them that much better of a person to begin with in my eyes. When I was in middle school, learning a second language was one of the most pleasurable experiences of my life. Going into high school, I expanded that further and decided to major in French and Italian language studies when I reached college. I enjoyed it so much, that I ended up taking Latin, German, and ancient Greek for fun. Oddly enough, I ended up learning Italian because of a friend I met in an online game. I spent 5 years of my life learning a language, which included studying abroad my freshman year, all because of a silly game online. I don't even speak to that person anymore or know what happened to them.

As a teacher of Japanese students, I can confidently say that everyone has a reason for learning a language. While most 2D animated fans outside of Japan hope to expand their reading skills, that doesn't mean they are retarded for wanting to do so. A lot of Japanese students only care about speaking English, and the comparison between cultures is what makes me respect language that much more. While it does make me sad thinking they are missing out on so much more by ignoring the other core skills, who is anyone to judge? Learning a language is a very difficult task, and even if some people find it a lot easier than others, it still takes time and effort. To those who want to learn Japanese for a hobby, I respect them for making an effort to begin with.

Teaching ESL and EFL is an entirely different beast. The people who enjoy this hobby aren't required to learn Japanese, yet they do it out of pure excitement and enjoyment. Growing up, we've all had a dream, and even if that dream has changed at some point in our life, something still exists. Why call those who want to learn a language for a hobby they love retarded? I've taught preschoolers who don't even know their native language, and even then I can see the excitement on those children's eyes. I've talked with their mothers and I can tell they aren't doing this for their child's future, but because they want them to enjoy something and be excited. Even if you don't love kids, there really is a joy to seeing someone's face light up when they are having fun.

And it's not just the kids. I've taught English to business students, a Japanese history professor for Korean students, a husband and wife who have some spare time, and lonely widows hoping to meet new partners in their life. I've taught elementary schools, junior high school girls, and high school students who don't even know what they want to do when they get older. It doesn't matter their age, the joy I feel as a teacher knowing they have reached that "ah-ha!" moment in their life and the excitement they feel being able to use the language for the purpose they want is all that matters. A lot of VN and anime fans don't show it, but I promise that at some point they have felt the excitement about being able to finally read or use Japanese in some way or another. Nobody is retarded for that; nobody should feel worse than they already are in a hobby that a lot of people find appalling to begin with.

Language is a wonderful thing, and I feel those who want to learn it for whatever reason they feel like deserve a great amount of encouragement. While I wish individuals would expand their language learning beyond a single core skill, I always need to remind myself that the joy of being a teacher is watching your students grow. It doesn't matter their age, hearing their stories is always a joy. Nobody is retarded for learning a language, and should never, ever feel that way.

[Eclipsed]

99% of the people in my JP class admitted to being in this class because of being into anime and/or other JP-isms

The 1% is some JP dude who was 'Muricanized so he wanted to redeem his heritage pride or w.e

[Nosebleed]

6 hours ago, Eclipsed said:

99% of the people in my JP class admitted to being in this class because of being into anime and/or other JP-isms

When I started my Japanese classes back in my first year my teacher already automatically assumed this. (she wasn't wrong either)

What was interesting about that first year experience though was that at the start of the semester she sent us a non obligatory inquiry via e-mail asking us what we expect to learn from the class and what other things we'd like to know about outside of the language. As you could expect, most people wrote things like "Japanese culture" in the "other" field. The end result was that every once in a while my teacher would give a small presentation about particular things the Japanese do (eg: cherry blossom viewing, new years card exchanges, new years shrine visits, etc.) and imo these were rather interesting because they really showcased a lot of behaviors we normally don't get to see. However I must be in the minority, because most of the class didn't seem to enjoy these presentations and found them boring.

I guess this didn't fit with the class's idea of "Japanese culture". ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Dizzy]

Well @Hayashi aka Justin i know you are the guy who GO LEARN JP OR NOT READ VN AT ALL

If you learn JP, GREAT, again if you can read JP, GREAT.

Unfortunately i nor have time nor motivation to learn JP at a degree like u do

I learn graphics design, motion graphics, video making, editing, photography, etc. All of them are more useful than jp language for sure.

I still read VN and yeah, maybe some people say i was scrub reader because don't learn JP but to be honest, VN is ranked like 10th of all my hobby combined.

Tbh i don't really care about content lost because i don't read in JP, i read in english, i enjoy it. it's my life. Sorry for my rubbish engrish.

[Okarin]

Depends on:

- Your age (I learned some Japanese when I got into anime, at age 16, and then it's probably easier)

- The time you can allocate to learning

- How much you love the medium (if you're really passionate about visual novels, why not? Don't wargames players learn to paint and decorate their models? Don't chess players learn every minor aspect of their game? Don't music players do so, or martial artists?)

I think there's just this kind of people who're so jaded they blame others for doing what they like.

There's nothing wrong with devoting yourself to something you love; it's even good for you.

I'd say, even fetishes should be tried if we find them really pleasurable, as long as your partner(s) are okay with it and you're not harming anyone. Fetishes aside, how harmful can a hobby be?

If anything, the most hateful people are the ones who preach the rest what they have to do and what they have to think.

Oh, and over here there's the "retired people" over 65 (now 67, I guess) to whom the State passes a pension, so them, not being working, have a lot of time on their hands. They spend their excess time doing things they could never do while they were slaving away working, such as traveling or so. That's an example people can do anything at any age. You only need a working brain and passion for learning. I'd love to go to Japan, Germany, Denmark or wherever if I have the chance when I retire. Or maybe... yes, learn Japanese, or German, or Danish.

[douggle]

Okay hi, I am the person that is referred to as "DM" in this convo and quite a few things are being taken out of  context, the biggest being that my point was that if you are text hooking Steins;Gate 0 when its just weeks away from official localization that , i felt that is more than a bit silly. I never tried to discourage anyone from learning Japanese, (another thing refereneced was me pointing out others in said community trying to force feed the idea  that people NEED to learn Japanese and they are somehow LESS of a fan if they do not" I do apologize though that this conversation from a PRIVATE group floated on to this forum here. 

[Darklord Rooke]

1 hour ago, douggle said:

Okay hi, I am the person that is referred to as "DM" in this convo and quite a few things are being taken out of  context, the biggest being that my point was that if you are text hooking Steins;Gate 0 when its just weeks away from official localization that , i felt that is more than a bit silly. I never tried to discourage anyone from learning Japanese, (another thing refereneced was me pointing out others in said community trying to force feed the idea  that people NEED to learn Japanese and they are somehow LESS of a fan if they do not" I do apologize though that this conversation from a PRIVATE group floated on to this forum here. 

Oh hey, look at that - finally some context. Why, it's almost as if Kiso was trying to hide this or something ...

[douggle]

I honestly wasnt even aware of this thread til I decided to login since its been a while 

[douggle]

While I don't deny in that particular group there are times where I am a jerk hahah, yeah the whole thing was taken out of context, apologies once again! 

[Nosebleed]

I think this thread is about the concept of "learning a language for a hobby is stupid", rather than that specific facebook post. OP did misuse the post as an example, but that still doesn't take away from the very valid question of "is it worth learning a language for a hobby?"

Not really sure why everyone got up in arms about the example rather than the question being asked. Internet circle jerking at its best I guess.

[Darklord Rooke]

15 minutes ago, Nosebleed said:

I think this thread is about the concept of "learning a language for a hobby is stupid", rather than that specific facebook post. OP did misuse the post as an example, but that still doesn't take away from the very valid question of "is it worth learning a language for a hobby?"

Not really sure why everyone got up in arms about the example rather than the question being asked. Internet circle jerking at its best I guess.

If the thread was solely about that question, then the referencing of the argument wouldn’t have been needed. The identities of the participants in the conversation wouldn’t have been needed. All it does is shame a certain participant while putting his ‘lad’ in the best possible light. That the section of the discussion presented was dreadfully out-of-context backs up the idea that the thread wasn’t solely about presenting a question.

Think of it this way - the question as presented is woefully retarded as a discussion point. Why? Because in a vacuum the idea that ‘learning anything is stupid’ is itself a stupid idea. Because you get something (the knowledge of another language) for nothing (or almost nothing.) Hooray, a new skill and no downside, what's to discuss? Nothing, that's the point. Context provides boundaries and pay-offs. Context provides scope.

“Is learning a language stupi-”
“Of course not”
“If it means destroying your marriage”
“Oh”

That this context was not provided not only makes the thread a circle-jerk for people who learn Japanese, it deprives it of any useful discussion. Which was probably the point, Nosebleed. That is, you’ve been conned into participating in a circle-jerk for reasons that are suspect and possibly mean-spirited.

Doesn’t that annoy you at all? :S

[Hayashi]

On 10/31/2016 at 5:00 AM, Dizzy said:

Well @Hayashi aka Justin i know you are the guy who GO LEARN JP OR NOT READ VN AT ALL

If you learn JP, GREAT, again if you can read JP, GREAT.

Unfortunately i nor have time nor motivation to learn JP at a degree like u do

I learn graphics design, motion graphics, video making, editing, photography, etc. All of them are more useful than jp language for sure.

I still read VN and yeah, maybe some people say i was scrub reader because don't learn JP but to be honest, VN is ranked like 10th of all my hobby combined.

Tbh i don't really care about content lost because i don't read in JP, i read in english, i enjoy it. it's my life. Sorry for my rubbish engrish.

HO How did you know I am Justin? Thanks to Vns, I am going to Uni in JP next year. For JP lmao

 

23 hours ago, douggle said:

Okay hi, I am the person that is referred to as "DM" in this convo and quite a few things are being taken out of  context, the biggest being that my point was that if you are text hooking Steins;Gate 0 when its just weeks away from official localization that , i felt that is more than a bit silly. I never tried to discourage anyone from learning Japanese, (another thing refereneced was me pointing out others in said community trying to force feed the idea  that people NEED to learn Japanese and they are somehow LESS of a fan if they do not" I do apologize though that this conversation from a PRIVATE group floated on to this forum here. 

Would you like to provide screenshots for the full discussion? 

[douggle]

40 minutes ago, Hayashi said:

Would you like to provide screenshots for the full discussion? 

Not particularly, as this conversation was taken over on a private group and is overall irrelevant to the discussion you are now having I was just trying to clear up the rather negative light I was being painted under.

[Darklord Rooke]

19 hours ago, Hayashi said:

HO How did you know I am Justin? Thanks to Vns, I am going to Uni in JP next year. For JP lmao

Even I knew you were Justin. In case you've forgotten, you've posted your Skype name on Fuwanovel in the past.

 

18 hours ago, Hayashi said:

Would you like to provide screenshots for the full discussion? 

Post full logs dating back many months, actually. Considering one of the allegations toward the group is that it engages in 'Learn Japanese or you're not a true fan' behaviour, which is context outside of the discussion in question that affects the discussion in question.

[Nosebleed]

2 hours ago, Darklord Rooke said:

If the thread was solely about that question, then the referencing of the argument wouldn’t have been needed. The identities of the participants in the conversation wouldn’t have been needed. All it does is shame a certain participant while putting his ‘lad’ in the best possible light. That the section of the discussion presented was dreadfully out-of-context backs up the idea that the thread wasn’t solely about presenting a question.

Think of it this way - the question as presented is woefully retarded as a discussion point. Why? Because in a vacuum the idea that ‘learning anything is stupid’ is itself a stupid idea. Because you get something (the knowledge of another language) for nothing (or almost nothing.) Hooray, a new skill and no downside, what's to discuss? Nothing, that's the point. Context provides boundaries and pay-offs. Context provides scope.

“Is learning a language stupi-”
“Of course not”
“If it means destroying your marriage”
“Oh”

That this context was not provided not only makes the thread a circle-jerk for people who learn Japanese, it deprives it of any useful discussion. Which was probably the point, Nosebleed. That is, you’ve been conned into participating in a circle-jerk for reasons that are suspect and possibly mean-spirited.

Doesn’t that annoy you at all? :S

Not in the slighest. I still think it was a valid question.  

Edit: I should point out I mostly just looked at the title. Since it was asking a question (well, sort of) I figured that was the point of the thread and the example given was just an illustration of 2 different opinions (even if we now know that wasn't the case in that particular facebook post). Maybe i just don't like reading too deeply into things.

[Deep Blue]

I like how the creator of this post tried to lure us to comment on some private conversation that it was also taken out of context.
Kiso... kiso, ダメダメだよォ

btw if you didnt want people to know you are "justin" you shouldnt have posted your skype on your fuwa's profile in the first place

[Benji Price]

Personally, I always liked the japanese culture and mangas/anime. But were VNs the reason I started to take japanese classes (By Skype since in my town the nearest japanese teacher is 200km away).

In my particular case, I have a fulltime job, I live alone and have no family of my own (nor intentios of having any so far). I even don't have more than 1 o 2 hours a day for the VNs I'm reading and don't (and won't ever) think that any kind of knowlege is useless. By the time it will take to me to know enought japanese to read VNs with no issues I don't know if I will be still so interested in them. But still I think if you have the means to learn something you really want, you shouldn't give it a second thought and do it. At least if you fail or give up, you would have wasted your time in something that you and only you chose.

As for the people with family or responsibilies alike, well... I beleive that everyone is consious enought to know the limit you can push your time for yourself.

 

[EastCoastDrifter]

This is probably not my place to give my opinion on the matter but, from my understanding, this thread is the result of a misunderstanding of the situation yes?

[littleshogun]

While the goal of OP here was to lure us to comment to the 'lover quarrel' between Hayashi aka Justin aka Kiso aka Aga and Douggle aka DM here which apparently so passionate there (Better than Twilight if you ask my opinion here), I think the question was still valid there if Hayashi really if he was asking his opinion whether learning language for hobby was retarded or not here. After all, it's quite good if we sharing the opinion here. Then again, maybe it's some kind of my self consolation here for getting easily fed up here lol. Sorry, just saying here.

Edited November 19, 2016 by littleshogun

[sanahtlig]

His word choice was simply off.  He meant "ridiculous" rather than "retarded".  Common mistake among teens.

Let's try again with proper expression.  "Learning a language just to play video games is ridiculous."

But that doesn't address the common complaint, which is that whenever untranslated games are brought up and people pine about playing them, they're usually told to "go learn Japanese".  So to further refine that: "Expecting someone to go learn a language just to play video games is ridiculous."

[douggle]

1 hour ago, sanahtlig said:

His word choice was simply off.  He meant "ridiculous" rather than "retarded".  Common mistake among teens.

Let's try again with proper expression.  "Learning a language just to play video games is ridiculous."

But that doesn't address the common complaint, which is that whenever untranslated games are brought up and people pine about playing them, they're usually told to "go learn Japanese".  So to further refine that: "Expecting someone to go learn a language just to play video games is ridiculous."

I m not really a teen though I am 34, but yes it was a poor word choice.  

[Kurisu-Chan]

On 30/10/2016 at 1:23 PM, Hayashi said:

Yep that's the question. There was this argument in one of the VN communities yesterday and this particular person by the name of, DM (initials, don't want to disclose names)

It was a Steins gate 0 English release thread, and this was pretty how it triggered the title question.  PS: Aga is my lad.

  Hide contents

So what do you guys think about his statement? IMO, learning anything for anything is never retarded, we should all learn new stuff and move forward.

I will use myself as an example, I learned JP to read VNs initially, and now I can read any VN without problem I decided to expand my knowledge and are planning to attend UNI in Japan next academic year and see what I can start over there. Maid cafe.....  

steins;gate related, i'm going to intervene here.

I'm gonna write a little text, about what steins;gate is for me, and about my motivations.

A little perspective, it was during my final exams for High school year, i was alone, in a class full of people hostile to me, no need to say that i was alone, alone in the dark, abandonned, and it pushed me to the borders of my own sanity...tbh, even now, i still have nightmares about that period, even now, i'm still paranoid when i talk with people "maybe he think bad about me, maybe he wants to hurt me", because of that experience, i became extremely closed, and...nah, no need to speak more.

 

Well, that's just a story, right? one thing happend, you can call it a miracle, or a delusion, but one thing happened, and it is steins;gate...both the anime and the VN...steins;gate was my first VN and my first anime in japanese, and since then, my whole perception of the world changed, i discovered that, even if i made mistakes in my past, no matter what i lived, and no matter how much people strike at me, as long as i'm able to move out and continue, nothing matters, it saved my life, and defined me, in short : steins;gate gave me a new purpose in life.

 

And yes, steins;gate 0 is the reason why i wanted and still want to learn japanese, even if the english version is out, i don't care if it's foolish or a loss of time, i want to do that, i freakin don't care getting called a retard, because i'm a soon-to-be Engineer, and i'm happy with my life. 

[kooolm]

Well, I'm currently learning Japanese to read VNs and I heard some people saying it's dumb. But why should I care if at the end of the day it's my business and mine alone what I do with my free time.

[Xavier12]

I 've been retarded long before I started learning Japanese.