What constitutes an "Otome Game"?

[Darklord Rooke]

2 minutes ago, Okarin said:

Well, like I said... can you tell the difference between Shounen Manga and Shoujo Manga?

By applying the same sort of definition as Winterfury suggests. When it goes outside this definition, the genre tends to become 100% useless.

[Nier]

5 minutes ago, Lambda said:

I feel like there can be linear otome games, though? Just not the What a Beautiful series, cause they're (sometimes very obviously) aimed at men. I feel like my definition's wishy-washy, but to me it's kinda like: if it inspires the same feelings in me as shoujo manga, it's an otome game. If it inspires the same feelings as a BL manga, it's a BL visual novel.

Well Inganock is definitely aimed at men, that much is certain due to the high amount of unnecessary sex scenes, while in comparison Sharnoth and Gahkthun barely have anything sexual in them (Gahkthun got on Steam without any censorship) and the sexual content in them do not seem to be aimed at men getting a boner out of it or anything like that.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Nier

[Lambda]

4 minutes ago, Nier said:

Well Inganock is definitely aimed at men, due to the high amount of unnecessary sex scenes, while in comparison Sharnoth and Gahkthun barely have any (Gahkthun got on Steam whiteout any censorship) and most of them do not seem to be aimed at men getting a boner out of it or anything like that.

Nah, it's clearly aimed at men. Fanservice scenes are guaranteed, and quite a few of the sex scenes are very "male gaze'-y. Especially the one that almost made me drop Gahkthun. Gahkthun also adds a whole lot of male characters only to focus on a total of like, two of them, which is an inproportional amount to the girls focused on? And the reason is cause they're not female and thus they can't make fanservice scenes out of, is sometimes how it felt. Sharnoth gets a little closer in the feelings it inspired out of me, but the fanservice is still there, and very obviously for the male population. It's one of those games girls can enjoy, but aren't aimed at them.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Lambda

[WinterfuryZX]

The steampunk saga is actually aimed at both audiences.

[Darklord Rooke]

‘Genres’ are created with the customer in mind. It helps the customer filter out certain preferences and quicken the search for books/movies/VNs they like. If you like action, then go to the ‘action’ shelf. Similar for ‘romance’ and the romance shelves. When nobody can figure out what is or isn’t an ‘otome’, or what is or isn’t a ‘shounen’ or ‘shoujo’, that genre is of little to no use.

My definition of ‘shounen’ is ‘action show that stars a child’, and how useless a definition is this? If you say ‘very’ I 100% agree with you.

The whole concept of ‘josei’, ‘shoujo’, ‘shounen’, ‘seinen’ is silly, imo.

[Okarin]

This is when I say I don't usually get aroused reading VN, not even eroge (it doesn't help that most H scenes are badly written or bad in the first place).

I always heard that Shounen Manga are aimed at a young male demographic (within Japan, of course) and Shoujo at a young women demographic. There are other ample genres, like Seinen and Jousei (also Seinen tends to be really badly applied).

So I think it depends on the audience for which it's created... maybe I don't know what Otome readers like, but oh, the writers do. Also, women share some common tastes throughout the globe, and then some particular quirks for each area. Just as men. They just have to exploit that.

Then there are the not-so-obvious categories:

Kimagure Orange Road is a romance story and a shounen, given the approach a lot of the scenes take, and really, the protagonist is Kyousuke.

Fushigi Yuugi is a shoujo with action, drama, blood and cruelty (Yuu Watase's trademark), but in the end, every man in existence fawns over Miaka.

The problem is these genres are very, very wide. And besides, even though there's a lot of lookalike works in manga, there are pioneers in those genres that try things that haven't been done before or take some other foreign elements into it, thus making a richer story. Personally, I feel that Rooke's definition of Shounen is not very accurate. Key's works are shounen-like, Little Busters is a shounen type of story, Riki might be a child of sorts but he's not the action type. And not every shounen is Beyblade either.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Okarin

[WinterfuryZX]

Seinen, josei, shounen are not genres. They are terms that classify the target audiences of manga magazines.

A shonen manga is is a shonen manga because is published in a shonen magazine, a josei manga is a josei manga because it is published on a josei magazine... and so on

Edited November 25, 2016 by WinterfuryZX

[Okarin]

Then I guess Otome isn't a genre either. Not more than Eroge. There are a lot of variations of Eroge. The only constant is it contains sex scenes. Basically if you can imagine a story with sex scenes, you can create an Eroge, no matter what you write about.

[Darklord Rooke]

1 minute ago, WinterfuryZX said:

Seinen, josei, shounen are not genres. They are terms that classify the target audiences of manga magazines.

That makes more sense. However, applying that to individual VNs or books is when it stops making sense. People no longer classify books as 'literature for men/women' outside of ... well, porn. 

... And there we go. Mystery solved.

7 minutes ago, Okarin said:

Personally, I feel that Rooke's definition of Shounen is not very accurate. Key's works are shounen-like, Little Busters is a shounen type of story, Riki might be a child of sorts but he's not the action type. And not every shounen is Beyblade either.

Yes, that's the whole point. When it means different things to different people, there's little use for it.

[WinterfuryZX]

2 minutes ago, Okarin said:

Then I guess Otome isn't a genre either. Not more than Eroge. There are a lot of variations of Eroge. The only constant is it contains sex scenes. Basically if you can imagine a story with sex scenes, you can create an Eroge, no matter what you write about.

Yeah it isn't, it's a term that defines game mechanics.

[Okarin]

Take the label Eroge: it just tells if you're gonna find porn on it or not. It doesn't tell you about the story, characters, or any real elements of the game. Thus, its usefulness is limited.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Okarin

[Valmore]

Otome is a term for games that are meant to appeal to a female audience in the most generic of terms. As we all know, females are simple creatures that all like the same thing. An indecisive heroine, attention from 4-5 hot males, and some BL on the side.

[Narcosis]

Having female protagonist does not instantly make the story aimed at female demographic. Lack of ero content in said vn doesn't make it an otomege, either. Where do those silly presumptions come from? Pure otomege is often as sexual in content, as traditional eroge aimed at male demographic.

A "classic" otome game is a game where a female lead character often pursues multiple male characters for romance and love. Furthermore, it's written through a specific POV and one, that strongly emodies the "feminine" aspects within and caters to female fantasies. No buts. Period. Anything else that does not contain those two points isn't considered an otomege. Those games are created directly with gals/women in mind.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Narcosis

[Nandemonai]

3 hours ago, Okarin said:

It can still be aimed at women but not be an Otome, I guess. But if it's an Otome, pretty much it's designed for a female audience.

That's not good enough, as others have noted.  That definition is generic enough to include yaoi (which isn't otome because it's yaoi).

[Okarin]

It can be not yaoi, but still be otome, what's so difficult about the whole thing? Review your set theory.