sanahtlig

No. The PC Special Edition had the combined content of the previous adult and non-adult versions and was released 18 months prior to JAST's release. This "adult version had less content" myth that people are still propagating is old info and INCORRECT when used to make inferences about JAST's release.

You should check the Fuwanovel post I wrote about it (linked in the spreadsheet quote). The false dichotomy you're perpetuating is incorrect. Edit: And ironically enough, the original post was written in response to you.

Except JAST explained that the adult version was a no-go because of the loli content. It was a pretty easy decision: no release or a non-adult release.

Why the fan translators chose the non-adult version of Aselia the Eternal has absolutely no bearing on the JAST release. JAST could've released whichever version they wanted, or both.

To redirect this discussion to something slightly more relevant to VNs, but still controversial, consider JAST's release of Aselia the Eternal (list of censored eroge link). Title Product link English release date Publisher (primary) Publisher (secondary) Adult version Mosaics? Non-adult version Description of censorship / differences between versions Remedies Aselia the Eternal J-List 3/23/2010 JAST USA not released uncensored The adult version was not localized due to concerns about the loli content None This was an eroge that had a non-adult version in Japan, and JAST chose to release only this version. I say definitively that Aselia the Eternal was censored. Do you agree?

That's censorship, in a similar way as military classification of sensitive information is censorship. But that's actually a completely different type of censorship than we've been talking about thus far. Do you have a right to know what's going on behind the scenes? Maybe, maybe not. Do you have a right to know about changes made to games for localization? I'd say you'd have a stronger argument there. Since the motive is important, it's only "putative" or "alleged" censorship until the "why" is known, I suppose. Honestly I don't really care about browbeating people with definitions. As long as I can figure out what they mean at a glance, that's usually enough.

Censorship doesn't encompass all types of changes, or even coerced changes. You can disapprove of coercion without calling it censorship, which encompasses suppression of speech considered "objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient". Censorship is not a catch-all word for undesirable changes, and indeed some types of censorship could be desirable in some contexts (e.g., censorship of hate speech or child pornography). I myself use the word broadly, perhaps over-broadly, but I temper this by clearly explaining terms, inclusion criteria, and what was specifically changed in each game. I try not to make value judgements in my censored eroge list: I simply collect data, categorize it using objective criteria, and let readers sort through it themselves and make their own value judgements.

From my wiki link provided as a reference inside the discussion transcript (obviously you didn't have this at the time):

*shrug* I could've asked asked a question about 4Kids I suppose. That's what I think the question implies, at least, to anyone who's read the Twitter conversation.

Your response seems to imply--no, argue--that what I and others would term "self-censorship" in gaming isn't actually censorship. Any change approved or consented to can't be censorship, and they're almost always approved. The 4Kids situation is a classic example of what anti-censorship advocates rail against as "self-censorship". You seemed to imply that this wasn't censorship, in your view. We can argue terminology here, but we seem to fundamentally disagree on what censorship is, and particularly whether it's undesirable. My title and poll questions don't judge that. I'm simply trying to gauge the beliefs of spectators. That includes their beliefs about what words mean, to some extent.

I also asked you this question specifically, and you responded as follows. I thought my title was an accurate condensation of the opposition viewpoint you appear to be endorsing. Is that incorrect?

The guy you retweeted seemed to think that censorship that wasn't required by the government wasn't censorship.

I had an extended discussion with Decay, writer for Fuwanovel's official blog, on the topic of self-censorship and whether anti-censorship activists are misusing the term or are perhaps "bullying developers" without a valid reason. My own position is well-documented, but I thought it'd be interesting to explore an alternative viewpoint. The discussion began with the following tweet. A native Twitter thread of the exchange can be found here. What follows is a re-formatted transcript of our discussion. Do you agree with Decay? Those interested in exploring my viewpoint can browse my censorship coverage at the censorship tag on my blog. I also have a project that documents censorship of English eroge. Eroge with a censored official English release, a comprehensive list This was posted here with Decay's consent.

Comments are only representative of the audience. And it wasn't very clear that what you posted was a comment by a 3rd party (since you blacked out the poster).

Would you like to elaborate on this "point"?

https://www.amazon.com/Evoluent-VerticalMouse-Regular-Right-VM4R/dp/B00427TAIK

I ragequit after reading about half each of the /vg/ and /v/ threads. Even my patience has its limits. The funny thing is that even 4channers complain in that thread about the "e-celeb" culture that has taken root there.

You display a suspicious familiarity with and understanding of the various 4chan subcultures that discuss visual novels. I've reading the /v/ thread you linked. Still waiting to find any actual constructing criticism after going through about 1/4 of it.

Don't think I saw any comments to that effect. Oh, this was the point responding to 4chan's feedback. Got it.

I expect that Dies Irae has more meme potential than Tokyo Babel (which I had to look up because I couldn't even remember the name). Even if light does no marketing at all, the chances of people latching onto it are greater (but still low). Raising those chances to the realm of "maybe" would require conscious outreach and marketing efforts, like Aksys did with Agarest War.

But did MangaGamer actually use that angle to pitch it? Did they try to emphasize the wackiness and submit the game to the sorts of places likely to pan the game and generate attention? MangaGamer doesn't have professional marketers on staff, unlike Nutaku. Last I checked they were struggling to implement well-established conventional marketing tactics, much less try bold new-age meme tactics which could be hit-or-miss. Companies like to blame the market when sales are poor: "the demand wasn't there". I've seen it over and over again. They don't like to admit that their own marketing failures could be to blame. I've seen quality games do poorly and poor games do well. Some of it is luck, but many of the factors are manipulable or at least influenceable. LewdGamer is absolutely convinced they can make a mediocre game that can do better than more deserving titles simply because they understand their audience and how to market to them. I believe them. Effective marketing is much more important than the quality of the product you're selling. Nutaku wouldn't be where it is otherwise.

I don't know, 'Megalomaniac Nazis with superpowers, a pseudo-intellectual tale' seems like meme material to me. Savvy marketers could work this angle to increase the chance it sticks.

It's worth mentioning that Winged Cloud has made a name for itself churning out mediocre low-priced VNs for the Steam audience.

I think this highlights how confused the Steam store page leaves your casual shopper. With Nekopara, it was pretty clear what you were getting.

That's a good point. Japanese developers are used to front-loaded sales that die out immediately after the first month. English VN sales, especially on Steam, aren't like that. They have a long tail. Most of their sales will likely occur over the next 2 years or so.