sanahtlig

I'm curious how the two of you rate translations (although anyone can feel free to participate in this exercise). I'm going to create some "translation tiers". Fill in a few VN translations that you feel would fit each tier. Include at least one fan translated and one professional release in each tier when possible. Also feel free to establish different standards for fan and professional releases, but do try to also compare them directly using the same scale. Unacceptable (include at least one borderline case and label it as such) Passable (below expectations) Satisfactory (meet expectations) Excellent (surpassing expectations)

Yesterday I posted a translation of the opening scene to Dark Blue, a short murder mystery VN with netorare elements. I received largely positive feedback, and not surprisingly the topic of making this a full-fledged project came up. My response is as follows. I have confidence in my (English) writing skills, but not so much in my translation skills. As anyone who's seen my writing in the Japanese chat game thread will realize, my knowledge of Japanese grammar is actually pretty terrible. A Japanese sentence to me is essentially a puzzle of words that I painstakingly piece back together to arrive at an overall picture that makes sense. The basis for my translations is logical reasoning rather than understanding of the language. When I have no context to reason from, I'm essentially screwed (which thankfully doesn't happen much in VNs). My Dark Blue intro scene translation turned out pretty well (which is why I posted it), but any real project would definitely require a translation checker. I have mixed feelings about the "value" of fan translation projects (as a creator rather than as a consumer). For one, there's too many highly critical people around who judge fan translations based on professional standards and use this as justification to belittle people's effort. As I see it, once you're at the level to satisfy such people, there's no reason to translate anymore because the main impetus to translate is personal development. Trying to satisfy such people invokes stress and anxiety I associate with a job, not a hobby. Second, translations lack creative value. Translation is a form of mimicry; the result will necessarily mirror the original, and therefore a translation never truly belongs to the translator. Those who can, create; those who can't, translate. If I'm going to devote a ridiculous amount of time to a writing project, I might as well write my own original story, which no one will ever complain about (if made available for free) and which I have full rights to sell somewhere down the line. As I see it, there's two main reasons to fan translate a VN: personal development (of one's Japanese abilities) and social recognition / status. In the current high-scrutiny / low-recognition environment, I just don't see the value in committing time and effort into a project that could take years. It'd be nice to do something useful to others while working on my Japanese, but any VN longer than a couple of hours would simply be too much work for too little benefit. [Reposted from the forum thread Dark Blue Intro Scene Translation]

I suppose I could reply at greater length to this, but I'll keep this short and sweet. If you want the assurance of a quality translation, fan translations are the wrong place to be looking. Buy professional releases, and hold them to high standards. Fan translations almost by definition don't respect the wishes of the creators. It's a bit silly to say that a bad translation respects them less when no respect existed to begin with. As for respect for the wishes of "fans who actually care"... I'm not sure why such wishes deserve respect? Why should anyone respect the wishes of those who seek to limit their freedom (to produce and enjoy low-quality translations)? You're free to choose whether or not to "waste your time" with questionable translations. But by demanding that low-quality translations not be available, you're restricting the freedom for everyone to choose and decide for themselves. That's a very condescending attitude, and I hope you realize why people label such attitudes "elitist".

I have confidence in my (English) writing skills, but not so much in my translation skills. Anyone who's seen my writing in the Japanese chat game thread will realize my knowledge of Japanese grammar is actually pretty terrible. A Japanese sentence to me is essentially a puzzle of words that I painstakingly piece back together to arrive at an overall picture that makes sense. The basis for my translations is logical reasoning rather than understanding of the language. When I have no context to reason from, I'm essentially screwed (which thankfully doesn't happen much in VNs). This translation turned out pretty well (which is why I posted it), but any real project would definitely require a translation checker. I have mixed feelings about the "value" of fan translation projects (as a creator rather than as a consumer). For one, there's too many highly critical people around who judge fan translations based on professional standards and use this as justification to belittle people's effort. As I see it, once you're at the level to satisfy such people, there's no reason to translate anymore because the main impetus to translate is personal development. Trying to satisfy such people invokes stress and anxiety I associate with a job, not a hobby. Second, translations lack creative value. Translation is a form of mimicry; the result will necessarily mirror the original, and therefore a translation never truly belongs to the translator. Those who can, create; those who can't, translate. If I'm going to devote a ridiculous amount of time to a writing project, I might as well write my own original story, which no one will ever complain about (if made available for free) and which I have full rights to sell somewhere down the line. As I see it, there's only two reasons to fan translate a VN: personal development (of one's Japanese abilities) and social recognition / status. In the current high-scrutiny / low-recognition environment, I just don't see the value in committing time and effort into a project that could take years. It'd be nice to do something useful to others while working on my Japanese, but any VN longer than a couple of hours would simply be too much work for too little benefit. Yes.

As someone who's recently taken an interest in nutrition, I recommend against overdosing on juices. There's increasing evidence that typical levels of sugar intake are linked to many of the health problems we associate with a Western lifestyle. Sugar in liquid form is one of the worst ways to consume it. The WHO recommends that most people limit free sugar to ~25g a day. That's about one glass of apple juice.

I'm fairly confident that a rising tide of netorare games would not improve the public image of VNs. I've been known to be wrong on occasion, however.

All I did was translate a scene, which isn't much good to anyone who can't read Japanese. At best, it distracted pabloc from doing something useful. But yeah, I've seen the Dark Blue H-OVA and like most ero-anime it's terrible. The VN's common route is interesting, though from what I've seen the heroine routes and the optional netorare are pretty mediocre. You've played almost 500 VNs, most of them Japanese. Aren't you like... fluent? Why would it matter to you whether a game gets translated?

What do you mean by "hard"?

Keep in mind this is the opening scene--all the context a reader will have going into this game is what I've posted here. I had the definite impression that the young man held the old man in contempt. There's such a thing as "polite dismissal". I made no particular attempt to literally translate the words, which is why I morphed "Shitsureishimasu" to something more appropriate for English conversation. The contempt is evidenced by the following line: その表情には嫌悪が浮かんでいて、誰も近づけない刺々しい雰囲気が漂っていた。 A disgusted expression on his face, an aura of inapproachability surrounded the young man. I translated the underlying contempt rather than the words themselves to arrive at a more natural phrase that English readers would recognize and understand. You're right about "That's how it was." I missed the tone on that one.

I know, I'm a pro at copying title images from official websites. I'm actually so lazy I can't even be bothered to take screenshots for my reviews. I did choose the image somewhat carefully from a vast selection of title images on Getchu, DLsite, and the official website.

What the hell did you do to my Makenshi Leanne feature image? That took 3 weeks of exhaustive waiting to get right! Actually, the review site overall looks much better now. Much more professional-looking, and it has the browsing features I expect (that weren't present in the old site). Very nice. The original feature image can be found here. The current image is ok for display in the post, but I don't think a gameplay screenshot makes sense for a thumbnail (especially since the text is too small to read all the details).

The scene replays later in the game. Chronologically, it's actually part of the epilogue, if I remember correctly.

VNDB About a year ago I decided to translate the cryptic opening scene to Dark Blue, a short murder mystery VN with netorare elements. I did this just to show that I could. After the recent controversy with the Monobeno project (which I discussed in my last post Regarding demands for fan translation project quality standards), I became curious whether others would consider my work "up to snuff". I've always assumed that unless a translation was near professional quality it would not be welcomed by the fanbase. What follows is a mostly unedited translation I wrote relying on the translation suite I typically use while playing Japanese eroge: text hooker, JParser, EDICT, and ATLAS (a machine translator). I translated this before moving onwards in the game, so it's quite possible I missed foreshadowing or other elements; it reflects my understanding of the scene as I was reading it. A video containing the scene can be found here, if you'd like to watch the scene while reading along. Dark Blue Intro Scene Translation ？？？「私も、最後に君に伝えておこう」 Old man: I have one last thing to tell you. その男は、革張りの椅子に腰掛けながら、青年へと向けてそう口を開いた。 While sitting in the leather chair facing the young man, the man opened his mouth. ？？？「なんですか？」 Young man: And that is? ？？？「確かに呪いなどがあったかどうかはわからん」 Old man: Whether it was a sort of curse or not, I don't know for certain. ？？？「だが、現に我々は狂い、自分を保つためにあらゆる方法を模索して来た」 Old man: But what I do know is we've been groping in confusion for a way to preserve ourselves. ？？？「その結果がこれなのだ」 Old man: And the result is this. 何ら恥じることなく、男はそう断言する。 Unashamedly, the man declared so. 正面にいる青年に対して、恥じる様子などひとつとしてなかった。 Facing the young man in front of him, there wasn't a hint of shame in his visage. ？？？「自分達は最善を尽くしたと？」 Young man: "We did our best", eh? ？？？「意志が弱いなりに、我々はやれるだけのことをやってきた」 Old man: In our weak-willed way, we did what we could. ？？？「そういうことだ」 Old man: That is all. ？？？「……失礼します」 Young man: I've heard enough. もう話すことはないと言わんばかりに、青年が部屋のドアのほうへと向かう。 With nothing else to say, the young man faced the room's exit. その表情には嫌悪が浮かんでいて、誰も近づけない刺々しい雰囲気が漂っていた。 A disgusted expression on his face, an aura of inapproachability surrounded the young man. ？？？「君は運が良かっただけかもしれんぞ」 Old man: It could be you were just lucky. 青年がドアノブに手をかけようとしたとき、男がそんなことを言った。 As the young man reached for the door knob, the man said this. ？？？「人生など、何がどう転ぶかわからんものだ」 Old man: In our lives, there's no telling when or how the fall will come. ？？？「君にだって、私達と同じになる可能性はあったはずだ」 Old man: Even you--you could have ended up like us. ？？？「そのことを覚えておきたまえ」 Old man: Remember that. そう言って、男は煙草を口に運んだ。 Saying that, the man brought a cigarette to his mouth. だが、彼の目にはもう青年の姿は映っておらず、どこか遠くを――懐かしい過去を見つめるように双眸を細めていた……。 But in his eyes the figure of the young man was reflected no longer--the pair of eyes narrowed as they looked into the distance, as if gazing into the nostalgic past. [Reposted from the forum thread: Dark Blue Intro Scene Translation]

VNDB About a year ago I decided to translate the cryptic opening scene to Dark Blue, a short murder mystery VN with netorare elements. I did this just to show that I could. After the recent controversy with the Monobeno project, I became curious whether others would consider my work "up to snuff". I've always assumed that unless a translation was near professional quality it would not be welcomed by the fanbase. What follows is a mostly unedited translation I wrote relying on the translation suite I typically use while playing Japanese eroge: text hooker, JParser, EDICT, and ATLAS (a machine translator). I translated this before moving onwards in the game, so it's quite possible I missed foreshadowing or other elements; it reflects my understanding of the scene as I was reading it. A video containing the scene can be found here, if you'd like to watch the scene while reading along. Dark Blue Intro Scene Translation ？？？「私も、最後に君に伝えておこう」 Old man: I have one last thing to tell you. その男は、革張りの椅子に腰掛けながら、青年へと向けてそう口を開いた。 While sitting in the leather chair facing the young man, the man opened his mouth. ？？？「なんですか？」 Young man: And that is? ？？？「確かに呪いなどがあったかどうかはわからん」 Old man: Whether it was a sort of curse or not, I don't know for certain. ？？？「だが、現に我々は狂い、自分を保つためにあらゆる方法を模索して来た」 Old man: But what I do know is we've been groping in confusion for a way to preserve ourselves. ？？？「その結果がこれなのだ」 Old man: And the result is this. 何ら恥じることなく、男はそう断言する。 Unashamedly, the man declared so. 正面にいる青年に対して、恥じる様子などひとつとしてなかった。 Facing the young man in front of him, there wasn't a hint of shame in his visage. ？？？「自分達は最善を尽くしたと？」 Young man: "We did our best", eh? ？？？「意志が弱いなりに、我々はやれるだけのことをやってきた」 Old man: In our weak-willed way, we did what we could. ？？？「そういうことだ」 Old man: That is all. ？？？「……失礼します」 Young man: I've heard enough. もう話すことはないと言わんばかりに、青年が部屋のドアのほうへと向かう。 With nothing else to say, the young man faced the room's exit. その表情には嫌悪が浮かんでいて、誰も近づけない刺々しい雰囲気が漂っていた。 A disgusted expression on his face, an aura of inapproachability surrounded the young man. ？？？「君は運が良かっただけかもしれんぞ」 Old man: It could be you were just lucky. 青年がドアノブに手をかけようとしたとき、男がそんなことを言った。 As the young man reached for the door knob, the man said this. ？？？「人生など、何がどう転ぶかわからんものだ」 Old man: In our lives, there's no telling when or how the fall will come. ？？？「君にだって、私達と同じになる可能性はあったはずだ」 Old man: Even you--you could have ended up like us. ？？？「そのことを覚えておきたまえ」 Old man: Remember that. そう言って、男は煙草を口に運んだ。 Saying that, the man brought a cigarette to his mouth. だが、彼の目にはもう青年の姿は映っておらず、どこか遠くを――懐かしい過去を見つめるように双眸を細めていた……。 But in his eyes the figure of the young man was reflected no longer--the pair of eyes narrowed as they looked into the distance, as if gazing into the nostalgic past. [i also posted an edited version of this post on my personal blog]

I like the idea of holding players responsible for their actions, and making them think hard about the consequences of their actions. Unfortunately, the Internet is a cruel place, and sincerity is not rewarded. I'd tell the banned players to buy a new copy and think a bit harder about the effects of their actions on others before engaging in shady activities.

＠Ｅｌａｉｒｉａｈ：君の書く力はなかなかですけど、読む時に気をつけてね？俺の英訳（二倍）を見るがいいと思います。俺の読む力は強い，日本語のエロゲーを読みますですから。 Note to everyone: If someone else translates the same post as you did, make sure you read their translation! They may be pointing out a mistake you made! The translations are part of this game to make sure everyone's on the same page. It's very important that comprehension mistakes get noticed and pointed out, and this is the only way to make sure that happens. In general, the original poster can't point out translation mistakes because while he knows what he wanted to say, what he wrote may not actually say that. Therefore it's up to others to point out translation issues (with a focus on comprehension and not so much the details).

＠Ｄｏｗｎ：ミスを指す、有り難う。 ＠Ｅｌａｉｒｉａｈ：俺も。まあ、スレッドを作る理由はその為だから。

Recently, a spirited argument erupted in the Monobeno -Happy End- project thread regarding the perceived poor quality of translation samples. As this a topic of general controversy in the fan translation scene, I decided it might be worth addressing on a general level to those who might not care about this particular title. Please don't take this post as an invitation to reignite controversy in that thread; post your comments here instead. Fan translation is as much about the journey as the destination. While the audience may only care about the final product, for the translator the journey may be even more important. This is an opportunity for a translator to improve both his Japanese skills and his English skills. As much as he's doing it for you, he's doing it for himself. I don't understand why anyone would think that fan translators have an obligation to provide a quality product, and that the audience should have an expectation of a quality product. All fan translations should be treated as being of suspect quality until proven otherwise. That's really all there is to it. If you're unhappy with the final product, don't play it. A game like Monobeno will never ever get licensed in English, so it's not like a substandard fan project would be ruining our chance at a professional translation (as might be the case with other titles). So before you complain about projects that don't meet your quality standards, remember that no one deserves a quality product for free, and that fan translators have just as much of a right to benefit from a project as their audience. Maybe if there were a better resource for tracking translation quality across different releases we wouldn't even be having these arguments. And maybe if the more skilled fan translators simply took pride in the quality of their own work, and weren't so preoccupied with the attention other groups were getting, there wouldn't be so much bickering going on. [This is a repost of my response in that thread edited for a general audience]

ところで、『自分」のＪＰａｒｓｅｒの親見出しが ［ｍｙｓｅｌｆ／ｙｏｕｒｓｅｌｆ／ｏｎｅｓｅｌｆ／ｈｉｍｓｅｌｆ／ｈｅｒｓｅｌｆ；Ｉ／ｍｅ；ｙｏｕ］ ｗｗｗｗｗｗｗｗｗ

Ｚａｌｏｒの日英はちょっと違いますですから、他の誰さんは俺の始めの書き込みを訳す貰いますか？

@Zalor:

Your profile is the perfect place to host an art gallery. You can also create threads to put images on display in a non-redundant manner. We also have the wonderful blog feature where you can draw attention to your artistic talents. There's many outlets for your creativity other than signatures that clog up discussion and slow page loads for everyone.