Complaints about moderation goes here

[bigfatround0]

5 minutes ago, Kirashi said:

If there is something I can't accept, this is an "admin" that come out of nowhere with a random insulting post like that. I don't know you, and  maybe I am wrong, but I never saw you posting anything here. This is the first time I read something from you, and I read that? As far as I know, I can even say that I see Tay on this forum more often than you. 

Welll, what I mean is that your post just sound like provocation. Nothing more. You are not different from the "whiner" in that regard.

That guy's been around for a while. I think tay's an older member but nayleen was also here back when aaeru ran this place.

[Darklord Rooke]

11 minutes ago, Kirashi said:

If there is something I can't accept, this is an "admin" that come out of nowhere with a random insulting post like that. I don't know you, and  maybe I am wrong, but I never saw you posting anything here. This is the first time I read something from you, and I read that? As far as I know, I can even say that I see Tay on this forum more often than you. 

Welll, what I mean is that your post just sound like provocation. Nothing more. You are not different from the "whiner" in that regard.

A)   Nayleen takes care of the server and most of the tech stuff. He’s very important to Fuwa cause he keeps the place running. That is why he's 'admin'.

B)    He was also an admin a couple of years ago.

C)    The first page of this thread was cut from Ren’s thread in the fan translation forum, so you’re likely missing context.

D)   He’s had over a thousand posts, so if you don’t see him around it’s because you’re not around

[Nayleen]

^ Pretty much.

Thing is: I don't post a lot, I'll give you that. When I do it's mostly silly stuff or in one of the chatter threads, but mostly because I don't really have anything to contribute to one of the core sub-forums or threads. I don't develop VNs (yet), and I've read pretty much everything I wanted to read (which is not a whole lot), so there's nothing for me to talk about.

I like spending time with the community members, and opt not to moderate too heavily, because that's what the moderators are there for, right? Wrong. If I went around swinging the ban-hammer I might as well call it Lucille (props to whoever gets the reference), because thing's turn bad, people used to and feel entitled to the fluffiness that is the normal moderation flow; You can get away with pretty much anything, as long as you don't bitch about it and tone it down.

That's when I like to make an appearance, to remind each and one of us that some things are not okay, and while the moderating team is tripping over their own feet trying to figure out how to go about a particular issue without offending anyone, I just do. I'm here to remind people that there are other, very real people sitting in front of their computers, that you think you can talk down and feel bad about whatever happened to make you so angry that you'd probably think twice about in your everyday life to throw a tantrum like that.

People would call that out, and rightfully so. I'm the priviledge check that comes ringing bells, and reminds people that some things are just not okay, and shouldn't be tolerated. When I do, things have usually gone way past sour already, so lately I've been trying to keep an eye on a few things, topics and certain people. Which is not favoritism or persecution, but just the plain reality: Some people will get people on edge, no matter what they do. I'm definitely one of them, which is why I tend to stay in the background.

We're here thanks to the creators and the people who built this site, and I think it's disrespectful to feel entitled about any of it - without them, nothing would be here. Without interested and motivated people we'd probably still be torrenting VNs left and right, instead of seeing some actual quality being put out, both from established companies and indie groups. I'm fighting for them, and I think everyone who's dealt with me in the past can confirm that I do so consistently - heck, I even fought my then-girlfriend back in the day when shit hit the fan over one of the very, very rare bans, that I of all people thought was uncalled for.

Anyways, and that's why I wanted bitfatround0 to back off of OriginalRen: The guy's fighting the good fight, no matter what happened to any of the files. Back off, and leave the guy be, enjoy your time on these forums or reddit, but god damn people, stop it with the entitlement. I know it's rough waiting on something you're really interested in, but it's not your place to bitch about any or no progress being made, unless it's your own project, and then you're in charge, so take matters into your own two hands.

With that said, peace.

[Kirashi]

5 hours ago, Rooke said:

A)   Nayleen takes care of the server and most of the tech stuff. He’s very important to Fuwa cause he keeps the place running. That is why he's 'admin'.

B)    He was also an admin a couple of years ago.

C)    The first page of this thread was cut from Ren’s thread in the fan translation forum, so you’re likely missing context.

D)   He’s had over a thousand posts, so if you don’t see him around it’s because you’re not around

A) I don't remember talking about that

B) Maybe, I don't understand the point saying me that...

C) That's because I read the whole thread that I saw this post. It didn't pop up in my head...

D) I was saying I don't see hhim often in friendly chat, like VN discussion.

 

4 hours ago, Nayleen said:

^ Pretty much.

Thing is: I don't post a lot, I'll give you that. When I do it's mostly silly stuff or in one of the chatter threads, but mostly because I don't really have anything to contribute to one of the core sub-forums or threads. I don't develop VNs (yet), and I've read pretty much everything I wanted to read (which is not a whole lot), so there's nothing for me to talk about.

I like spending time with the community members, and opt not to moderate too heavily, because that's what the moderators are there for, right? Wrong. If I went around swinging the ban-hammer I might as well call it Lucille (props to whoever gets the reference), because thing's turn bad, people used to and feel entitled to the fluffiness that is the normal moderation flow; You can get away with pretty much anything, as long as you don't bitch about it and tone it down.

That's when I like to make an appearance, to remind each and one of us that some things are not okay, and while the moderating team is tripping over their own feet trying to figure out how to go about a particular issue without offending anyone, I just do. I'm here to remind people that there are other, very real people sitting in front of their computers, that you think you can talk down and feel bad about whatever happened to make you so angry that you'd probably think twice about in your everyday life to throw a tantrum like that.

People would call that out, and rightfully so. I'm the priviledge check that comes ringing bells, and reminds people that some things are just not okay, and shouldn't be tolerated. When I do, things have usually gone way past sour already, so lately I've been trying to keep an eye on a few things, topics and certain people. Which is not favoritism or persecution, but just the plain reality: Some people will get people on edge, no matter what they do. I'm definitely one of them, which is why I tend to stay in the background.

We're here thanks to the creators and the people who built this site, and I think it's disrespectful to feel entitled about any of it - without them, nothing would be here. Without interested and motivated people we'd probably still be torrenting VNs left and right, instead of seeing some actual quality being put out, both from established companies and indie groups. I'm fighting for them, and I think everyone who's dealt with me in the past can confirm that I do so consistently - heck, I even fought my then-girlfriend back in the day when shit hit the fan over one of the very, very rare bans, that I of all people thought was uncalled for.

Anyways, and that's why I wanted bitfatround0 to back off of OriginalRen: The guy's fighting the good fight, no matter what happened to any of the files. Back off, and leave the guy be, enjoy your time on these forums or reddit, but god damn people, stop it with the entitlement. I know it's rough waiting on something you're really interested in, but it's not your place to bitch about any or no progress being made, unless it's your own project, and then you're in charge, so take matters into your own two hands.

With that said, peace.

Don't misunderstand me. First I was not complaining about Ren or something, it's just that since I don't know you, I don't know how you are, and when I read your post I was kinda upset. I can understand you are fighting for motivated people and you are doing an amazing work for this site.

I don't need the Ren translation to play this game. I just want you to understand that I never flamed about ren's files. Whether he is lying or not, I don't care, really.

I just want you to understand that if you want "reminds people that some things are just not okay", you don't need to go and provoke them like you did. 

[bigfatround0]

3 hours ago, Nayleen said:

 

Anyways, and that's why I wanted bitfatround0 to back off of OriginalRen: The guy's fighting the good fight, no matter what happened to any of the files. Back off, and leave the guy be, enjoy your time on these forums or reddit, but god damn people, stop it with the entitlement. I know it's rough waiting on something you're really interested in, but it's not your place to bitch about any or no progress being made, unless it's your own project, and then you're in charge, so take matters into your own two hands.

With that said, peace.

I actually don't care about the aokana translation and I even defended him in the reddit thread. I was just bored when this whole thing started. 

[Nayleen]

Well, no more arguing out of boredom then.

[Kurisu-Chan]

What did actually happened with Ren and a lie about a Translation? 

[bigfatround0]

Just noticed my comment was removed...

 

Good job mods. Instead of removing clickbait bullshit you remove a comment that had to do with the translation group behind this project.

 

I see fuwanovel is still as shit as it was a few years ago. I seriously thought it had gotten better with the removal of torrents but I guess I was wrong.

 

The problem are the shitty mods and I'm pretty sure Nosebleed is at the heart of it.

[Kurisu-Chan]

What is actually happening? 

[Nosebleed]

Well, I wasn't the one who hid your initial post, but since you mentioned my name, I'm 99% sure commenting on a translation project thread to call the project leader "fucking obnoxious" and say that he "acts like a middle schooler" fits the definition of "off-topic".

But nah, Fuwa is shit, that must be it.

[bigfatround0]

Glad you understand

[Fred the Barber]

2 hours ago, bigfatround0 said:

Instead of removing clickbait bullshit you remove a comment that had to do with the translation group behind this project..

Your post had nothing to do with the translation group or the project - it was an off-topic flame directed at a person who happened to be related to an earlier post. Good riddance to childish troll posts.

[bigfatround0]

7 minutes ago, Fred the Barber said:

Your post had nothing to do with the translation group or the project - it was an off-topic flame directed at a person who happened to be related to an earlier post. Good riddance to childish troll posts.

[Nayleen]

Constructive. Take a chill pill, come back again on Tuesday, and consider yourself warned for trolling and abusive behavior - yes, even mods are people.

[babiker]

I'm frankly surprised @bigfatround0 hasn't been banned at least temporarily by this point, he literally admitted to screwing around:

On 3/20/2016 at 4:05 AM, bigfatround0 said:

Nah, honestly I was just fucking around. I didn't expect my comment to take off and start some minor drama.

If there are any legit complaints about moderation, it's how lenient they can be with his kind, ironically enough 

[chaosfirebit]

Damn, this thread is intense. and im just here eating popcorn.

 

 

[littleshogun]

@babiker I'm agree with you, but I think all mods here obviously had same problem as bigfatround0, bored (Hey, I also could bored too, okay). So of course they need something to entertain mods, and here we had bigfatround0 willingly to become clown for all of the mod and admin here by posting bait post here, and also to cure his boredom. And I'd read in some forum that sometimes forum need people like bigfatround0.

Although I said bigfatroun0 was like clown here, I think the problematic post was not that offensive at least compared to his other posts (Even the target for the post was like it) imo, but of course there's a proverb called the straw finally break the camel here or something like that. And I think it's already intolerable enough, then the rest is history. Note that mods also human, so of course they could be angry or had their limit. But I think by complaining with profanity will not helping the case (Well, the mods also need entertainment though), and if you always saying thay Fuwanovel is shitty, just go back to reddit even though it's quite stale (From my observation it was not only reddit problem, but also with Fuwanovel and VNDB in regard of stale board ie less activity). But if you still willing to entertain mods here and me in the future here, go ahead.

Okay, for formality back to topic, I once again didn't had complain about moderation. If I find something wrong with moderation, I think it's better to find a round way to work with that (babiker already point it out about moderation complaint). And the reason I posted in here, well let's just said I was also bored at this time.

PS - My post in the past was removed too you know, but I'd definitely would not reacted like you, nor will in the future, because I knew it's pointless.

[bigfatround0]

I was actually banned for like a day yesterday.

 

No bullshit; I actually like it here. /r/vns is getting too stale for me.

[Dergonu]

2 hours ago, bigfatround0 said:

I was actually banned for like a day yesterday.

 

No bullshit; I actually like it here. /r/vns is getting too stale for me.

I think when you have bothered members, board mods, global mods and to top it off, an administrator, only to then get soft banned, it's time to stop your trolling.

 

Can my complaint about moderation be that the obvious trolling and not at all constructive behavior in this thread by certain individuals wasn't handled sooner?..

[Nayleen]

Yes. It can, and should be. Rule enforcement only comes second after having some lulz to a lot of them. Remember my wall of text from last page? Point in case.

[Down]

45 minutes ago, Dergonu said:

Can my complaint about moderation be that the obvious trolling and not at all constructive behavior in this thread by certain individuals wasn't handled sooner?..

Implying I made this thread expecting constructive behavior

I already stated my views on moderation anyway.

[Kaguya]

6 hours ago, Nayleen said:

Yes. It can, and should be. Rule enforcement only comes second after having some lulz to a lot of them. Remember my wall of text from last page? Point in case.

I did say this thread was a terrible idea in the BM forums... Still, to some extent, the purpose of this was to contain offtopic rants about moderation in a single thread rather than letting it happen all over the forums - and there's not much point in it if we don't let people rant to their heart's content. 

I appreciate all types of feedback - good or bad - so long as they reflect what the members are thinking. When it gets to name-calling, that's a no-no and I'd consider banning someone for it (at the very least, I'd talk to them and hide the posts.) Wasn't watching the thread too closely, though. I figured there'd be enough moderation around here and that I wouldn't have to do anything about it. Guess that was wrong, huh. Sorry for that. Should've paid some more attention. 

On the topic of banning, temp bans are a little slap to the wrist. They're a way of saying "don't do that". There's no reason to actually ban someone it if the person is going to tone down - oftentimes it just serves to make members saltier and angrier, which is a terrible result. As you said, there are very real people behind your computer screen - you can actually make them understand what type of site this is and how their behavior here should be through talking. Banning often has no result other than creating a troublemaker, lol.  

Obviously uncooperative types aside, I continue to think it's a really shitty method to stop people from being arses. 

Still, there are many ways to moderate the site, and none of them is obviously better than the other, in my opinion... Yours is fine, but I'd like you to keep in mind that I'm not soft because I'm lazy or because I want some lulz. I moderate the way I do precisely because I'm dealing with actual human beings. 

[Eclipsed]

 

23 minutes ago, Kaguya said:

I'm not soft because I'm lazy or because I want some lulz. I moderate the way I do precisely because I'm dealing with actual human beings. 

I just fell in love with Kaguya-hime all over again

[Darklord Rooke]

29 minutes ago, Kaguya said:

Obviously uncooperative types aside, I continue to think it's a really shitty method to stop people from being arses. 

Temp bans aren't supposed to stop people being arses, it's to tell them they've 'overstepped the line in a significant way' and that 'if they can't follow the rules, they're not welcome on the site'. It's to 'remove' the 'arse element' from the community, not 'change' the 'arse element' into something which smells like roses. If you're using it as a tool to 'stop people acting like an arse', you're using it mistakenly. It's a tool which says 'respect the rules or you're no longer welcome on the site.' Think of it as a 'swift kick in the nuts', it's not supposed to make them nice or stop them from being an arse, it punishes and makes you feel good ...

34 minutes ago, Kaguya said:

I moderate the way I do precisely because I'm dealing with actual human beings. 

Ha! Everybody knows that most ‘users’ on the internet are nothing but pieces of computer code, created by a devious mind to impersonate the worst aspects of human behaviour, and unleashed on the web for unknown, nefarious purposes. Almost like a virus. And you wouldn't be humane to a virus, would you? That'd just be silly ...

[Kaguya]

3 hours ago, Rooke said:

Temp bans aren't supposed to stop people being arses, it's to tell them they've 'overstepped the line in a significant way' and that 'if they can't follow the rules, they're not welcome on the site'. It's to 'remove' the 'arse element' from the community, not 'change' the 'arse element' into something which smells like roses. If you're using it as a tool to 'stop people acting like an arse', you're using it mistakenly. It's a tool which says 'respect the rules or you're no longer welcome on the site.' Think of it as a 'swift kick in the nuts', it's not supposed to make them nice or stop them from being an arse, it punishes and makes you feel good ...

The tool itself is a way to stop people from accessing the site for a certain amount of time. The way it's used is up for the user. 

Your post makes sense. It's why I don't criticize Nay's way of modding - I think it's perfectly valid. 

Still, if possible, I'd like people to stop being arses over saying they're not welcome. It's not like I never ban anyone. It's just that I prefer seeing if we can work things out before doing that... And I don't really think that's wrong. One of the advantages of being a small community is that we can pay attention to all the members, and make judgments afer familiarizing ourselves with the situations that led to the trouble-making and the nuance in the whole issue - and I think it'd be a waste to throw that privilege away. Things aren't black and white, and a kick in the nuts isn't always the right way to go about rule-breaking. 

Of course, it also depends on what the member is doing. Certain transgressions would just get someone banned, yes. 

Ugh. I suck at writing text-walls. Hopefully this managed to explain what I think about moderation better. If it didn't, rip me