Zalor

Alright, I finally finished the Its my own Invention chapter in Subarashiki Hibi. It was really cool to read things through Mamiya's perspective. While the ending to Down the Rabbit Hole 2 felt more thrilling and climactic than the ending to this chapter, it was definitely cool to see the same ending through Mamiya's perspective. And one huge question of mine was answered. This chapter felt a fair bit longer than Down the Rabbit Hole 2. But seeing Mamiya go from just some wimpy kid who gets severely bullied, to either a lunatic or the "messiah", was just such an interesting and enjoyable experience. Some criticisms I have for this chapter are the H-scenes. I really didn't like some of the H-scenes as some of them just made no sense to me. Somebody once told me that the H-scenes can ruin Subahibi for some people, and I can totally see how now. Anyway, aside from the H-scenes I really liked this chapter. I'm looking forward to Looking Glass Insects!

Lol, I think I have even bigger problems with moege. But I've just given up complaining about them. Also, I updated my post. I realize that there are good Otomege out there, so I've restructured my argument towards dating sims.

Okay, sorry. After discussing it out a bit, I re-oriented my argument a bit, and the title reflects that. I also edited the OP accordingly. @sanahtlig: To get a well built laptop that is not flimsy and bulky, and has the portability factor that mac books do. Than you will be paying more money for a windows. My Dell XPS 13 cost more than a mac book would have. Of course, there are cheaper windows laptops out there. But I feel that portability is important for reading VNs on the go. And as somebody who used to have a bulky cheaper laptop, those things are not really built to be "on the go".

Thanks for bringing that up. That is a really good point that I think I was ignoring up until now. The good otome games seem to be just as unpopular as good VNs are. It's just a shame that shitty dating sims are more popular than story-focused stories. I didn't realize what my main argument was until after hearing what you and @Kaguya said. But, what I really should have titled the thread was "Are dating sims a threat to Visual Novels". In fact, I might make that edit now.

I would argue yes. You can't take a story-based VN like Swan Song, Subahibi, Symphonic Rain, etc, and just replace genders. The characters are not cookie-cutter and are not there simply for the purpose of dating. While I am targeting Otome games, I am really targeting Dating sims as a whole. Its just, I think Otome games have adapted much better to the western market than male-oriented dating sims have.

Its mostly this aspect that concerns me. I am worried that Otome games might shape the public perception, and get people to think that dating sims = visual novels. My point about not classifying otome games as VNs I realize is a bit weird, but I mean it more in the way that I don't see dating sims as VNs. But I suppose it would be more accurate to label it as a genre of VN than to classify it as something completely different. My big fear is that people will mostly associate VNs as dating sims, that is what I don't want to happen.

The question I have is a bit more complex than the title I have, so allow me to give some context. From what I have seen just in my own personal life, otome games in the west have reached a popularity that visual novels are failing to achieve. And while otome games are a sub genre of VNs, their market is completely different from the market of story based VNs. In real life, I have met around 10 girls who I am decently acquainted with who play otome games. When I asked if they played other visual novels, they said no. From the information I gathered from them, they don't care about visual novels as an alternate medium, but only care about dating sims. They like otome games as dating sims. And Otome games are a genre that are growing on the western mobile market. Mystic Messenger has gained a lot of popularity these past couple of months, and with its success is very likely going to bring more otome games into the market. I initially thought this would be a good thing, since if otome games gain more popularity, then maybe those people will expend their interests into visual novels. But from what I have noticed, there is no evidence that suggests that the growth of the Otome game genre is going to benefit visual novels. In fact, I think it might even damage the potential for the visual novel market to expand in the west. By Otome games, I am mostly referring to the shitty dating sim ones that plague the mobile phone market. I know that there are some good story based ones out there, and sadly those seem to be just as unpopular as most story based visual novels. My real concern, is with how Dating sims are overall doing much better in the west than story based VNs. On the male side of things, shitty games like Sakura spirit and Nekopara I think are doing just as much harm to the reputation of Visual novels in the west. The popularity of dating sims is perpetuating the false understanding of visual novels as dating sims. VNs ≠ Dating sims! While I don't have anything wrong with dating sims existing as a genre, I do think it is very important to create a distinction between dating sims and VNs. Just like how it is important to create a distinction between Nukige and story-based visual novels. Just because they use similar formatting, does not mean that they are synonymous with each other. But the popularity that otome games are getting, are going to have more people associate VNs as dating sims, and this will make it hard for actual story based VNs to expand their market in the west. Furthermore, Dating-sim oriented Otome games in particular are marketing themselves to a western audience much better than VNs are imo. Developers for these games realize that this genre thrives most on portable devices. And I think it is that realization that is helping them expand their market so well. VNs on the other hand are still mostly just pc games, especially if you only take the western audience into account (since few psp and vita ports ever make it to the west). Not only are VNs limited to computers, but they are limited to windows. They largely exclude mac users, which is a huge problem in the west considering how many people have macs. Few people will do what I did and buy a notably more expensive ultra-portable windows laptop to enjoy VNs on the go like I did. Most people settle for the cheaper mac-books. And for people who are non-gamers and who have not yet discovered visual novels, it is perfectly reasonable for them to do so. Maybe I am in the minority out there, but I genuinely see visual novels as a medium of story telling in the light that books and movies are. Visual Novels can tell many types of stories and can encompass any genre of fiction they want. Hell, there are even some amazing genres like denpa that I think are basically exclusive to VNs. In terms of depth and writing quality, there are visual novels out there that offer the same amount of intellectual depth and meaning that some books do. I fell in love with this medium because I like experiencing interesting stories with the accompaniment of music and art. To see a medium I love getting neglected for mere dating sims just really pisses me off. I would really love to hear what other people think. Edit: After discussing it out a bit, I realize that my problem is not with Otome games per se, but with Dating sims as a whole.

Deep Blue, this isn't a direct response to this blog post. But thank you so much for last year introducing the community (and therefore to me) to Chiitrans lite. It is miles better than the ITH+Translation Aggregator combination that I was suffering through before. Literally Chiitranslite allowed me to enjoy reading Untld VNs, whereas before it felt more like homework.

Woah, Happy birthday @Eclipsed! I will never forget the time I put you in a video game mod of the visual novel community, lol

I'm 99% no... But technically I haven't finished the demo. So Idk. But I highly doubt it, lol.

Pokemon Academy Life... I'm serious, its actually pretty decent. Anyone who has strong childhood memories of playing Pokemon and is into VNs will probably at least enjoy the demo they have up right now. (It's no kamige, but its still pretty fun regardless). So here is the link: http://pokemonacademylife.com/index.php/13-demo-1-0-3-coming-soon It's actually really impressive how much effort is being put into this.

Hey, Welcome to the forums! It's always exciting to see people who are new to VNs since they have so much to explore. As for recommendations, Deep Blue nailed it. He recommended basically everything I would, so you should seriously consider reading those VNs when you have the chance. Nice avatar, really brings back memories, lol.

Everything is beautiful (I really like the background and character). Regarding just the UI though, I like how it keeps the standard text box design, but adds a lot too it. I don't have any critiques for it. Font was okay, but I would agree that is probably the weakest thing out of everything. Changing the font to something might be better. But aside from that, the UI in general is fantastic.

Ha, I don't think I would open them either if I got sealed copies.

Ahh, my bad. I thought that it would be okay for these games since they are clearly no longer in production and Stage-nana is no longer profiting off of them (Stage-nana's website doesn't even acknowledge their existence). But I suppose piracy is piracy, so I understand. I'm totally up for buying used copies of these games anyway if I can find a place that sells them. I have to ask, from what you have read of these. What are your opinions? One of the reasons that I really want to check these works out is because I think Narcissu is a masterpiece, and I am curious to see how he grew as a writer.

Ahh, that's too bad. I really appreciate your effort none-the-less though.

Thanks so much! If other people have other sources of information about these VNs, I would still greatly appreciate them.

Stage-nana is the Japanese doujin group that is responsible for the Narcissu series. (So if the name sounded familiar, that is why). However, if you check their vndb page out you will see that they did 5 doujin releases before Narcissu. All these doujin titles before Narcissu are fan-fiction VNs for popular VNs at the time, such as White Album, ONE~ Kagayaku Kisetsu e, Kanon, and Air. As somebody who is very interested in retro Otaku subculture (particularly late 90's early 00's), I would really like to learn more about these titles. And if available (on some corner of the internet), I would like to get them (download or purchase). Of those douijin titles, I am most interested in Duette～デュエット～, as it is a fan fiction about Sayuri from Kanon. Also known as my favorite character in one of my most beloved visual novels. So if anyone can link me to sources and sites that simply just have information on these VNs, I would be happy. Japanese sites are the only sites where I expect there to be any information, but if available, English sites are more than welcome as well. And if anyone knows how I could possibly obtain these VNs, I would be very grateful. Also, if anyone knows anything about these VNs, please discuss what you know about these VNs in this thread, as I would be very interested.

I agree with John, since you haven't read Narcissu I feel like you should make an exception for it. Otherwise Phenomeno is a great suggestion, and I would also recommend True Remembrance.

Yeah, I think we agree on this. That's what makes Denpa so much fun. Things don't make much sense and you desperately try to piece clues together before eventually you realize how futile it is to do so, and just give up and enjoy the ride. The only way to really understand it is to experience it, which is why I can't wait for this VN to be translated so Western VN fans can really experience Denpa. As it stands, I am not sure if there are any translated Denpa titles. I think Umineko might be slightly denpa, but I haven't read it so I don't know. And I'm not sure if Higurashi counts either (I only watched the anime so I haven't read the VN).

I'm generally not into figure collecting, but I really want that! Also, I agree with you. Having "seemingly normal characters" is an important part of Denpa. Your definition is a really good one. Have to agree with Narcosis here. Saya no Uta has some Denpa elements, but isn't quite it. For me, an important part of Denpa is inconsistency and distortion in how a character sees the world. In Saya no Uta, Fuminori may see the world inaccurately. But he consistently sees the world in that one way, and he is fully aware of it. Saya no Uta would be more denpa if for example Fuminori sometimes saw the world normally and sometimes did not, and this switching between the two would happen seemingly randomly with little consistency.

Seeing as how I have not found any threads about this, I suppose I will make it. Here is my source: link. "8/13/16 - This project is alive again due to the game getting a port/remake by the original developers, which means we no longer need to ourselves. Specific progress numbers will be added later." So it has been a couple of months now. This is one of my favorite visual novels (I've even done a blog post about it), and for a long time the translation has been stalled because the original game was just really old and outdated. When I emailed the fan translator a year ago asking about why he stopped, he said that the outdated game made it very difficult to insert translated text. So he needed to wait for a new port of the VN in order for him to continue translating. But somewhat recently the company that made the game made a recent remake of it for modern computers. This is double good news since now you can download an up to date release of the game. The original 2001 release of the game can be a bitch to get installed and fully functioning, so this release is much appreciated. Furthermore, this release has allowed the translation project to continue! Denpa is an interesting genre of visual novels. And Sayonara wo Oshiete is the quint essential representative of that genre, as it was one of the earlier as well as most polished Denpa VNs. Denpa is a genre that is a little difficult to describe, but it is characterized by having an unreliable narrator whose literal view of the world is untrustworthy and distorted. Meaning as a reader, you have no idea what is reality and what isn't. You see lots of weird imagery and are unsure if the MC is crazy, the world is crazy, or both. Its really fun stuff.

Glad I helped introduce you to the best VN. Its all downhill from there sadly. Nothing will ever be as good

I just want you to know, that Japanese people will think that you are even stranger than westerners will for doing something like this. Most Japanese people have a really negative opinion of extreme otakus, and coupled with the fact that you are also a foreigner, well you will probably get some funny looks. I just want you to know that Japan is not some otaku wonderland where you will be accepted because you like anime, lol. Although a strong part of me suspects that you are just a troll, so whatever.

That's where its from! Yeah, now I remember. Thanks so much man, you have no idea how much this has been bothering me.