Zalor

Wait, if you're a Dad, then that means that you haven't completely devoted yourself to the 2d realm. You should be ashamed of yourself.

A few weeks ago I was in Taiwan for a class of mine, and in Taipei (not far from National Taiwan University for those of you who are familiar with Taipei's geography), there is this great otaku store that sells a bunch of doujinshi. And a lot of it is stuff from the late 90's to mid 2000ths, which is an era of otaku related media that I have a huge soft spot for. In any case, I manged to find three doujins made by the artist of Symphonic Rain (one of my favorite VNs). So of course I bought all three. Here are some pics:

Generally, I don't really pay much attention to the names of artists and such from VNs I read. But I really like Shiro's style. He is the guy that did the art in Symphonic Rain. Symphonic Rain's art, while admittedly simplistic, has a certain charm to it in my view. And it certainly stands out from the crowd. Anyway, when I was in Taiwan a few weeks ago, I found some doujin stuff by Shiro which was really cool.

How has Quartett!'s GUI not been mentioned yet. That was the only VN I played where I was actually impressed by all the effort that went into the GUI.

Well my current avatar is simply an HD remake of my original one, which was from Fire Emblem 4 (an snes game). He was only a secondary character, but I really enjoyed his time in the story, as limited as it was.

So when is Aaeru bringing torrents back?

I recommend checking Deemo out, as well as my blog post about it. While Deemo does use a very small amount of text, it manages to covey a very emotionally complex story through mostly just audio and visuals. And when I say that there is very little text in the game, I really mean that.

Regarding single player games, in particular with roms, hacking into the game and changing hex values, memory values, and altering the assembly code is actually a challenge in and of itself. I think that that just using code breaker codes that you found off the net will get really boring after the first 5 minutes of fun. But if you make your own codes, then there is quite a bit of fun in exercising the power over the game to make it do what you want it to do. So what I am saying is that if you use other peoples cheat codes as well as hacks to make the game easier, then I think you are just wasting time. But if you make your own cheat codes and hacks, well that's an actual skill, and quite a lot of fun can be had as you figure things out.

Right, Steve too. Does the site in question have anything to do with lolis? Lol, I still remember when he would frequently update his loli thread (that thread has now been deleted hasn't it).

There was one other VERY important person that disappeared from Fuwanovel and very much led a crusade with her. And that was the site's founder Aaeru.

One question I always had for fans of Fan-service manga/anime. Why don't you just read/watch hentai instead? I don't understand the appeal of exciting yourself, but not getting the whole thing. I feel like fan-service manga is just watered down hentai. If you want story, non fanservice titles tend to have better quality writing. And if you want to get aroused, well porn and hentai is made for that. Regardless, DearS has a lot of fan service. So that might be up your ally.

Perhaps my phrasing might have been a bit confusing, but I don't see where we disagree.

Sorry it took so long to respond. But don't worry, I haven't forgotten. I think your point about Ayu never having met Makoto and Mai, was very interesting. I always assumed that because both Mai and Makoto possess miraculous powers of their own, that Ayu's was not needed. But the fact that they never even met Ayu is another good reason why her miracle wasn't used on them. And I think this is an interesting deviation that the VN has from the 2006 anime. The 2006 anime seems to imply that Ayu's last wish, was Yuuichi's last wish. So what ever he wished for, is what would happen. But in the VN, the wish is more clearly based on Ayu's desire. Hence why it only happens to people she met. As you seemed to conclude, Yuuichi really is the catalyst for all the miracles in Kanon. And what makes this so significant, is that he is unaware of this. Not only is he unaware, but he is very much presented to the reader as a normal guy (almost a self-insert). But if we take Mai's words to heart, there is something special about Yuuichi. But it seems that only the Heroines are able to see this. And because the story is in first person, we, much like Yuuichi himself, do not see what is so special about him. To us, it seems that these miraculous things happen around him. But perhaps there is something miraculous about him. In fact, the miracle of Ayu's ghost did not manifest until Yuuichi returned to the town. Ayu may have been desperately waiting for Yuuichi for years, but it was not until Yuuichi physically returned to the town that her ghost appeared. Theoretically, if the power for her to create a ghost of herself sub-consciously was all hers, then she could have done so at anytime. She could have had the ghost manifest and wander around the town for years, waiting for Yuuichi in the real world. But it is only when Yuuichi returns, that she is able to create this ghost. There are only two possible explanations. The most common interpretation (the one the anime implies), is that her desire to meet Yuuichi again was so strong, that she could sense his presence. Thus subconsciously she knew that Yuuichi was not in the town, so she didn't put the effort to create a manifestation of herself to search for him. That is, until she sensed his return. But the other possibility, is that she was unable to create a manifestation of herself to search for Yuuichi, until he returned. This reading suggests that Yuuichi carries some sort of miraculous aura around him, that gives birth for the opportunity for these miracles. Or if I were to further define what I mean, I think Yuuichi is like a conductor (like an electronic conductor) for miracles. He is incapable of creating any himself, but he has the ability to enhance the power of those who are capable. In the case of Ayu, she clearly holds the power of the miracles that relate to her. The Ayu that everybody sees is clearly a projection of her subconscious. But the ability to project such a realistic version of herself, may have to do with Yuuichi's presence enhancing her power to do so. In Mai's case, it is established that she has the power to save life, and to even create demons. But she is only able to unlock the ability to use her power to save herself through Yuuichi's presence. And lastly, regarding Makoto. Makoto's power was to create a temporary human form. But through her own raw power, she could only create a form of herself that would get weaker, die, and disappear. But because of Yuuichi's presence, her power is made strong enough where she can be reborn. So to conclude, I think there is something miraculous about Yuuichi. And I think this subtly is overlooked in the 2006 anime adaptation. Once again, I am so sorry that it took this long to respond. Simply put, I did not have the mental energy until now to write a thought out and articulate response to your response. I hope that the wait has not been in vain. PS: Code Geass is a really fun ride, hope you enjoyed it ( you have probably finished it by now).

A lot of my thoughts are similar to Chronopolis's. Furthermore, I think getting as invested in a forum community as Ren did, is kind of a dangerous thing to do. Forum's inevitably change, and people come and go. It seemed to me that Ren got more attached to the community than to VNs. So once his close friends either left, or became less active, then his purpose for remaining here kind of dwindled. Furthermore, the games and events he used to host aren't getting the same amount of responses that they used to, which seems to have frustrated him. But this is largely attributed to the fact that Fuwa is a lot bigger than it used to be. I remember when OriginalRen was new here, and I remember what the community was like then. It was small and everybody that was active pretty much knew each other. It was also still a fairly new community, so it was relatively easy for him to gain popularity by being as active as he was. He really developed the community in 2014, and I believe it was the fun he had with the people back then that gave him fond memories of the place. But as the site and community has gotten larger, people seem to be more interested in talking about VNs and related subjects. People aren't as interested in the community itself. Back when OriginalRen's popularity was at its peak, the Fuwanovel community wasn't exactly VN focused. It was more a place where people who had some interest in VNs could gather and get to know each other, and occasionally discuss VNs. But it seems to me now (and I could be wrong as I am hardly as active as I used to be), that the community is more focused on VNs. Fuwanovel is now more a place to actively discuss VNs, and less a place for casual chatter and occasional talk about VNs. The way I would describe the Fuwanovel that OriginalRen was really invested in, was like a bar. It was a relatively small place where people gathered, talked, and would sometimes talk about serious stuff (VNs). And while there were some people who cared more about VNs then casual discussion, they were relatively few (I was one of those people at that time). And I think these people, largely didn't talk to Ren much as a consequence of that. Fuwanovel now seems to be more like a convention. Where people are more serious about this hobby, and the primary focus of this community now is on the actual hobby itself. Like Chronopolis, I am largely ambivalent towards Ren since I was never really a friend of his. And there once was a time where I felt that he was abusing his popularity to push the site in directions that he personally wanted. But looking at it retrospectively, while I did have a few issues with Ren at times, he overall served the community well. He did a good thing for the community back in 2014, and it is sad for me to see him go (although a part of me is still skeptical about him leaving, since this isn't the first time he "quit"). But yeah, he was a good guy and did good things. But I can't claim to ever have been close to him.

When I switched computers a couple of years ago I moved my VN collection via flash drive. All my VNs worked fine, although I did have a problem with save files for a few of them. Even though I imported the save files, it still would not work with a few of them. But that was with a minority of them. And I think with a few of them I manged to fix the problem. The only VN I now have that the old save file still won't get recognized with is G-Senjou no Maou. And apart from that the VN works fine.

Regarding what you said before this (about the conversation that Yuuichi had with Sayuri), I always saw that as cancelled out by the very ending, the CG. Which, as you know I associated with a clinging to her past, and despite trying, not being able to successfully overcome her traumas. But I have to say, you've convinced me. I think you are right, she is thinking about not only Kazuya in a positive manner, but truly has found him in her relationship with Mai and Yuuichi. Also, your habit of finding more fun sinking your teeth into the subtitles of a work than the actual process of reading I can very much relate with. I really liked the Kanon 2006 anime, and it was the first anime I watched that got me interested in the mediums of anime, manga, and VNs. In a very real way, I feel that the Kanon changed my direction in life. Through the interest in anime I got from Kanon, I later found an interest in broader (and more traditional) Japanese culture, and from there started learning the language. And the Kanon anime was really the starting point of all that. So because the Kanon 2006 anime held such a special place in my heart, I felt obligated to read the VN. So Kanon was my first VN, but too be honest with you... While I think the story of Kanon is very good, I think the anime presents it in a much more interesting and fun way. The VN really is kind of a bore a lot of the time. (And it was actually my second ever VN, Yume Miru Kusuri, that got me hooked on VNs during my teenage years). So I understand you when you said, "I learned to love it", lol. However, the issue of enjoying analyzing more than the actual reading, is something that I have a lot more for books. I don't enjoy the process of reading actual books so much, but I love thinking about their contents. But for a long time, VNs used to be the only written medium that I actually really enjoyed the process of absorbing. Admittedly, while VNs were the only written medium that I actually ever found fun, only a handful of VNs I found were good enough to achieve this. In fact I can list them for you now, (Swan Song, Symphonic Rain, Narcissu, Yume Miru Kursuri, Sayonara wo Oshiete). I've read a decent amount of VNs, but those were the only ones that I really had a special affinity for. Furthermore, I think my loss of enthusiasm for VNs really came when I started college. I like to enjoy VNs by reading them in practically one sitting, all at once. And once I started college, I no longer had time for that. And without the luxury to read a VN all at once anymore, I just gradually lost interest. Another reason I think I lost interest though is because around a year ago I put a ban on myself from reading translated titles. The purpose of this was to improve my literacy of Japanese through a semi-immersive environment. And while good study practice, it felt more like work than fun. During those times I probably spent way more time looking at my electronic dictionaries than the actual VN. Sayonara wo Oshiete was the only untld VN that I truly finished, and that was because the story was so fascinating that I eagerly worked through it with a dictionary to find out what happened next. As somebody who started out learning Japanese from a literary and perspective, but then later on took actual classes. I recommend at least taking a year of classes before tackling VNs (this advice isn't necessarily geared towards you, just me venting a bit, lol). A lot of people in the VN community promote the idea of "Study Japanese grammar, then read VNs with dictionary assistance". But doing it that method as I started out is painfully slow and honestly dull. By taking at least a year of classes first, you can then read manga, VNs, etc without having to constantly look up the most basic shit. You will still read super slow with a dictionary, but at least it will be more tolerable. Also, by taking classes, you can learn to actually speak the language too. Which is necessary if you actually want to communicate with Japanese people irl. Sorry for that little rant. But anyway yeah, having been a part of Fuwa for a while, and also having lurked on other VN sites. I think most VN fans find more fun in the actual reading than in the analyzing, which is why I think there exists relatively few analysis of VNs. And one thing I'm sure that you've learned from this, is that once you are done with writing the analysis, you have read and reread scenes in the VN so much that you become kind of sick of them. For all of the VNs I wrote analysis of, during the process of writing the piece, I would reread scenes over and over again to make sure I knew what I was taking about. Also to find to key quotes. And by the time I finished, I couldn't stand the VN for at least a week. But after a month, my love for the VN completely recharges and I appreciate that I went through the effort of writing my thoughts down. So I think it is totally worth it, but it is definitely a difficult process.

Hey man, don't worry about responding a bit late. Especially with me, as I am no longer as active as I used to be. Also, your criticisms about a lot of the article having too much summery is completely justified. At the time I wrote this, I wanted people who had not read Kanon (but didn't care about spoilers) to be able to understand it. So I included a lot more summery then I should have. Also, I wanted people who hadn't obsessed over Kanon as much as I had, to remember the key points that I would be referencing. In any case, this was my first serious analysis of a VN, and I my over inclusion of summery was admittedly a key fault. Regarding the rest of what you said, particularly about Sayuri. I see how you could see her ending as happy, especially with her last words. But I think what makes the ending particularly complex, is that the final CG does contradict a happy ending. She claims to be looking forward to the future. But we see no proof of this. She still refers to Yuuichi formally (if I remember correctly), and her last thought, is of remembering her brother. Thus showing that while she claims to be looking towards the future, in reality she is still hindered by her past too much. Another crucial point, is that Sayuri can not be happy with only Mai, or only Yuuichi. She requires the two of them. And this seems to be true of Mai as well. In both of their respective endings, all three of them end up together. Mai and Sayuri have an inseparable relationship, but they are incapable of giving each other true happiness. Yuuichi is needed for them to all finally be happy. But unlike Sayuri's ending, Mai's is very clear that she has found her path to happiness. While Sayuri's route contradicts her well meaning words with the final CG. This is all I have to say for now. Unfortunately it has been a while since I have last been able to seriously close read Kanon. But I'm glad to have run into you. You are probably the only other person I have met who loves Kanon to the same degree I used to. And at this current state in time, you have probably surpassed me. As over this past year, I have lost a lot of the enthusiasm I used to have with VNs. But it will remain a story that is close to my heart, and it is really nice to know that there is somebody else out there that loves it enough to write thousands of words about it. For the longest time I used to be alone in this obsession with Kanon. I honestly do feel that it is the strongest work by KEY (even better than Clannad in my view).

Haha, I can totally relate in reading perhaps too deeply into Mai's route. And while I do disagree with you on your "True route argument", I definitely agree with you when you said "Mai's route is the most in-depth and complex of all the routes". This is certainly true, and Mai's route has fascinated me for quite a while. Mai's route is certainly isolated from the other routes. That fact that you could never even meet with Mai once if you read the other routes only emphasizes this. As you pointed out, she is a precursor to Ayu. But I do not see how the two are connected at all. Furthermore, if there were a "True Route", I don't see why it would not be Ayu's. Most of the endings in the VN are connected to the last miracle she grants (Nayuki, Shiori, and of course Ayu herself). However, while I can't buy the argument that Mai's is the "true route", I don't feel it matters whether her route is or not the "true one". What is true, and what we both agree on, is that hers is the most interesting and has the most complexity to it. And I would agree that while Mai is an incredibly tragic character, Sayuri is even sadder (If you are curious about why I think this, I elaborate in my analysis of Mai and Sayuri). At least Mai can get a happy ending, even in Sayuri's side route, she has no happy ending if you think about it. But what I find even more fascinating than that, is that both Sayuri and Mai are fundamentally intertwined. What is most tragic about Mai, is how she is destroying herself. She fights the Demon's out of denial, and more than anything, self-denial. She hates herself, and feels that she is irredeemable. And it is in this horrid depression that she and Sayuri are fundimently connected. They both hate themselves, but love the other. But neither can make the other truly happy, as they are sub-consciously connected by their self-loathing. Only with Yuuichi's intervention can Mai ever attain happiness again. And only with Yuuichi's involvement will Sayuri even begin hating herself less. Back on point to what you were arguing. If I understood it correctly, you were saying that Mai wanted Yuuichi to achieve a sense of closure with Ayu so that he can then emotionally dedicate himself to Mai. At least, that is how I understood this sentence that you wrote " Mai's power, in this case, may allowed Ayu a chance to reconnect with Yuuichi and give him a sense of closure so he can be better equipped emotionally to help Mai. " But I think this is forgetting that Mai is completely self-involved. She would never think of something so elaborate like that, because she is too busy self-loathing to involve herself with other people. Infact, that is the very essence of the tragedy of Mai. That she is too busy hating, and destroying herself, to involve herself with anybody (and this includes Ayu or any of the other heroines). The only person (other than Yuuichi) that she is capable of involving herself with, is another individual who hates herself just as much.

I don't have much time now, but I will read this and comment my thoughts when I do. I am a huge kanon fan also, and wrote an analysis on Mai's route 2 to 3 years ago now and had it posted on this site (should be linked in my sig). I'm glad that even 17 years later Kanon is still having a power effect on people. It truly is a VN classic. Anyway, I look forward to reading this soon. Edit: Fascinating post, you mentioned lots of interesting things and I have lots of thoughts on them. I really enjoyed reading this and thanks for writing your thoughts down. Please give me a day, or possibly even 2 days, and I'll finally have a proper response to the specific points you brought up. (I'm really sleepy now and have a busy day tomorrow :S)

The last time I remember MySpace being relevant was when i was in 3rd and 4th grade. Holy Shit that was a long time ago. Back in those days I though that the 6th, 7th, and 8th graders were cool. lol

Weird, cuz I will most likely be in Waseda next year lol.

My high school life was kinda like an anime in certain regards (also kind of like a VN). I spend my free time in school (lunch and free-periods) mostly chilling with my good friends (still hangout with them today when I can), playing card games, making fun of each other, helping each other with school work. In this way, my life was a slice of life comedy. But additionally, a decent amount of girls were interested in me. So I also had to balance out attention from certain females and decide whether I wanted to pursue them or not. The main conflict of this anime I suppose was the decision to maintain my simple life hanging out with friends and doing school work, or to complicate my life by getting involved in the world of females. Needless to say, at the time I wasn't quite ready for relationships and the like, so I chose hanging out with my friends over girls. As a consequence of this, I often pretended that I didn't know that certain girls were interested in me, intentionally acting like the dense-protagonist, since I didn't want to face the drama of rejecting anyone. In retrospect it was kind of an asshole-ish thing to do. Also, most high-school anime takes place in Tokyo I think. And similarly I'm from New York City, and the High School I went to also required an application process where you had to do well enough on a test to get admitted (a lot of good NYC high schools are like this, just like good Tokyo high schools).

I mean, it all depends on what crowds you are hanging around. I have one group of friends who I can talk about this stuff very comfortably with, but I also have other friends where I rarely bring up my interest in Japanese things. So yeah, its all about knowing when to bring stuff up. I just find it interesting how in Japan, reading manga is viewed as a completely normal hobby that won't raise any eyebrows. But there are still people who might judge you negatively for mentioning anime and games as hobbies, as those are still seen as very "Otaku" things. And relating this back into the topic. A lot of the negative associations VNs and anime have in Japan, are due to this weird niche market that is obsessed with cute underage 2d school girls. This medium would have a much easier time growing out of the "Otaku" niche (like manga has), if it stopped catering so much to very niche interests.

In all honesty though. If you went to Japan and went around telling new people you met that you like playing moeges and eroge, they would treat you with the same disdain they do with regular Japanese who are obsessed with this stuff. In fact, they may even think you are weirder because you are a foreigner in to that stuff. I remember one of my Japanese friends giving me the advice when I go to Japan to say that I like "manga", but to avoid mentioning anime or games, because those still have negative connotations. So yeah... OP: If the point of this thread is to complain about how over used and boring the High School setting is in VNs. Well then I completely agree with you. I hate how over fucking used it is. And this is also coming from somebody who liked their high school days. I really don't see why VN content creators can't get more creative with their settings... I mean, a part of me knows why they continue to do this bullshit, but it still bothers me nonetheless.

Took me 3 years for 1000 posts. ;P Congratz man. And also, I do recognize you, even if we haven't interacted much.