astro
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Posts posted by astro
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That might be your point of viev [sic] but for other translators thouse [sic] who take out H, H-scenes are probably not part of experience they are just porn fanservice that just drifts away from experience that actual VN is suposted [sic] to give. Even if you deffend [sic] H you should understand that there are bunch of VNs in witch [sic] H are obviusly [sic] forced so taking them out dosen't [sic] hurt a [sic] VN experince [sic] if anything it becomes closer to the original expirience [sic] that autor [sic] wanted to give to readers while reading his work.
What you are trying to argue is that is that a derivative work is more original than the original, which clearly makes no sense. Also, why did you misspell "experience" wrong differently both times?
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It may be worth noting that I'm not actually against H-Scenes in principal. I just think that most that I've encountered are poorly written/translated even in otherwise well written VNs. Saya no Uta is the biggest exception to this I've seen. I think that either the authors or the translators(can't say which since I can't read Japanese) should go read some erotica for a while before creating(or translating) these scenes. As it is, they mostly seem to range between dull and comical.
I don't know if I was coming across as some H-scene-enthusiast, but all the same, I can't say I enjoy H-scenes that much. With that said, there is a reason I am taking this particuarly side in the debate. The sole reason I translate is because I want to share the games I love with people who can't speak Japanese. I want people to know how great the game is, or to be fair, having the option to read the game in its entire form before deciding that it's not their cup of tea. That's why I strongly believe that the people who read translations should be able to have the closest - if not the very same - experience that I had when reading the game. It goes without saying: H-scenes included.
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Don't really have any beef with the first two except to say that you perhaps misunderstood my assertion about critique.
Yes, that was my misunderstanding. I apologize. But it is a fact - and a shame - that a handful of translators remove H-scenes just because they can't be bothered to, or are too lazy to translate them rather than considering what 'works' and what 'doesn't' (as a fair critic should). To each his own, I guess.
It seems that we have reached a conclusion amongst ourselves. It was a pleasure discussing this with you. I'm glad to see someone here can have a civilized debate without throwing around personal attacks.
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By the way, you just effectively declared the entire career of critique invalid.
Didn't you just state that 'being a fan translator is not a career because you are not paid?' Now you are suggesting that the people critiquing the work (the translators themselves) have side-careers as unpaid critics. Make up your mind, please. Again, it is not a translator's job to critique the work. Yes, translating is, to an extent, a subjective task. But I believe that people who make biased decisions when translating a visual novel should be disqualified as a translator. Maybe they ought to be bestowed the title of 'fan fiction author'. This is purely my opinion, though, so to all you fellow translators out there, take no offense to my words.
Someone mentioned it before, but you can't claim that only the potential projects you dislike are invalid for that reason.Isn't that the very premise of the removal of H-scenes? OP said he doesn't like H-scenes, so it's supposedly okay for them to be removed. But I realize that this is not about the OP, and more about the translators. Answering the question in the title of this thread, yes, it is technically 'okay' to cut out H-scenes, because it is their project. Would it possibly be frowned upon? Yes. So on that note, I am glad we agree that it should not be encouraged. Picking up a translation project is indeed quite admirable, but it is less so if you only pick out parts of the game you like.
The word you are looking for isn't censorship, but revision.I don't see what there is to 'revise', when it appeals to merely a percentage of the audience. Saying it needs revision is the same as saying that the original work was not to your tastes - and that is completely fine. However, I will restate my point that the readers should at least be able to have a choice as to what their own opinions are (which is arguably one of the most important aspects of enjoying a game). So no, I do not believe that it is 'revision' - that is forcing your ideals onto people, whereas if nothing is removed, you are not forced nor obligated to play through the whole game.
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then it shouldn't be a huge logical leap to realize that other people are just as intelligent as you and can make the same judgement in the opposite direction.
By removing these scenes, you are denying other people the opportunity to make that judgment. Regarding what you stated in the previous post, what is the different between that and censorship?
I don't think I'm blowing any minds by saying that some H-Scenes are not added in any way that is vital to their VNs plot.Again, the only one who gets to decide that are the original creators. Unless they themselves state otherwise, then it is only fair to assume that there is some sort of significance in said scenes.
But that doesn't make you right about dictating what others should or should not do with their hobby.I don't think people are entitled to the same amount of freedom when their 'hobby' is in fact, illegal.
It's a valid translation technique
Again, you are muddling the definition of a translator. Maybe it's time to consult a dictionary, because what you are describing is nowhere close to the definition of "translating." However, I do admit that localization is a key component that separates good translations from great translations. Where, though, does cutting out scenes fall under localization? Apparently, some people see that the removal of scenes is equivalent to the act of 'translating'. I guess for the sake of having a civilized debate, I will have to respect that viewpoint, but in the end, why not just give users a choice to skip H-scenes if they want to, instead of removing them completely?
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On the other hand, if I see an announcement for "Saya no Uta [ALL AGES CUT]
This is another issue that comes with selectively removing scenes. If you've read Saya no Uta, the H-scenes in it actually have a lot to do with the plot. The h-scenes themselves were an allegory to the game's message, which is revealed at the end of the game. By removing scenes, you are taking away from the game, and overstepping your bounds as a translator. Even in the case of H-scenes that you think are pointless - who are you to be the judge of that?
The job of a translator is to translate; they are in no position to judge the work and decide how and what should actually be translated.
Thank you.
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sometimes entire pieces of the script have to be deleted, entire scenes, not just h-scenes, altered so they don't look too weird, out of context, or simply incomprehensible.
You don't sound like you've ever translated a game before in your life. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Harry Potter movies, my brother bought all the novels in Arabic.Apples and oranges - we are talking about visual novels. Fan translations, nonetheless. If the Arabic copy is licensed and sold, then they can do whatever the hell they want with it.
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You were supposed to rebut his post, not my paraphrasing of his post
I'm a busy person. I have no time to read walls of text. I took your paraphrasing at face value.
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He said there are two methods of translating, neither of them wrong. You can either stay as close to the source as possible, or aim to reach as wide an audience as possible. He went on to explain that if you aim to make your work available to as wide an audience as possible, you may choose to remove such things. He said translators need to change the novel.
I'd recommend taking a deep breath and reading through it slowly before you rebut it. I don't care if you do, but I don't believe you read what he said.
In that case, I disagree. Translations are translations - we are converting the source language into something other people can understand, because you people are too lazy to learn Japanese.
if you aim to make your work available to as wide an audience as possible, you may choose to remove such things
That is no longer a translation; that is just modifying the game how you see fit. Some people will argue that translating a game is the exact same, but it is not. We are following guidelines - taking the exact same words of the original and converting them into a secondary language. 18+ games are 18歳未満禁止 for a reason. Even if you take out the H-scenes (even if you take out the 18+ material), under law, it is still an 18+ game. Unless you somehow get your modified work patented, you are distributing THEIR 18+ game to people not of age. Trying to distribute these games to minors is not any less illegal. Thus, your "trying to reach as wide an audience as possible" reasoning does not work.
Oh, and in case someone tries to say:
You translators are already basically committing a crime, so two or two-hundred more illegal deeds shouldn't hurt, right??Wrong.
I honestly don't know what people are thinking when they try to use the "translating is already illegal, so it's okay to commit as many crimes as possible!" logic. You guys are just sending translators into a ditch to die by encouraging that. It's almost as if you couldn't care less about them, and instead blurt out anything that's convenient for you. The people I'm talking about are the ones who are benefiting the most from translations, while safely sitting behind their computer screens because they have nothing to worry about.
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No he isn't.
1) "Translators should stay as loyal to the original source as possible."
2) "Taking out entire scenes is staying loyal to the original source."
I fail to see how those two statements go together, or how the second even holds true.
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as i have already said in my long lecture about translating, its in no way wrong to do this. translations are made for two purposes: reaching a wider audience, and\or staying as loyal as possible to the original source. you can refer back to my post, as i also don't want to repeat myself.
I'm honestly surprised no one replied to my post, though i suppose i said so much i left most people who had the energy to read the hole thing speechless
. or whas it something else?Probably no one replied to your post because you are contradicting your own argument already.
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Everything that you said was already been said so if you search true posts in this topic you will find answers to all of your arguments. If you have any new argument to add I will answer to it but if not, just search true posts here and you will find my answer or answer of people who share my opinion on the matter. I relly hate to repeat my self over and over again and I have been doing that all night long allredy. In your case about respect/disrespect crap for autors there have been like dosen arguments agenst it allredy.
Except I said VAs and Artists - not authors. At least bother reading posts, please.
If you're too lazy, TL;DR - It's okay if you don't want to translate the H-scenes. Just leave them in untranslated instead of taking them out completely.
It is very ironic that the people who try to argue that "translating a VN is disrespectful already, so don't complain about people removing H-scenes" are the very same people who encourage translation projects. Make up your minds?
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No contest for me.
Yami, Mikan, and Nana.
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I don't see why people would cut out H-scenes. If you're going to translate the game, translate the whole thing instead of doing something utterly irresponsible like taking out the parts of someone else's game, simply because you don't like them. This may sound sarcastic - I can assure you that it's not - but the voice actors, artists, and scenario writers (okay, maybe not them) put a whole lot of work into the H-scenes to make them look and sound right. I don't mind if you refuse to translate the H-scenes, but completely taking them out is a different story. It's rude and disrespectful, and you are pretty much denying other people's efforts because of your own laziness and close-minded attitude.
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まあ、英語が苦手のオレに対して、確か君の解釈の方かいいかもしれん
it means my English is poor
いや、そういう問題じゃないけどさ。。。
俺の言わんとしていることは、ポス主も誰も辞書使えるから一言だけ翻訳してもあんま役に立たないんだろう。
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まあ=ah
備えあれば憂いなしis a phrase.it means if i had prepared all thing well we can not be worried
自衛手段：Defense
What's the point of replying to a post in January? Also, defining words does not really help that much - anyone can use a dictionary. Appreciate the effort, though.
P.S. - All three of those are wrong.
まあ = "Well..."
備えあれば憂いなし = "Better safe than sorry"
自衛手段 = "Self-defense measures"
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Poetic? Don't songs normally try to have line endings that rhyme? Or do you mean poetic in another way? Anyways, the translation makes sense to me based on the story. I appreciate you taking your time for doing something you don't have to. Also, I am looking forward to your translation of Clover Day's
They use metaphors and references that make no sense outside the story. I had no idea what was going on (and I'm probably not the only one), since I've never even heard of the game.
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does somedody know how to archieve any good results using mashine translation?
I have already tried it to run it with LEC / Atlas...
The story is hard to understand, as the plot itself isn't a very easy one & some words seem obviously totaly wrong translated xD.
Is there any alternative towards the LEC / Atlas combo?
I honestly have no idea what you are trying to ask for. First of all, machine translations will not give good results, if that is what you are looking for.
Second, you stated that you already tried to machine translate the game, but you had no idea what the Japanese was saying. I don't get why you think switching from LEC/Atlas will magically make you better at understanding Japanese.
Maybe one fine day after VN4ALL I'll recrute a team for it
Good luck with that.
Hi,
If there is anybody who would consider doing a RUS -> ENG Translation of the already existing Russian translation, please write pm me.
Also there should be some, who would like to work on the language editing, to make it sound fluent.
Don't let the TL attempts of this novel die
Lolgc~I-VNTP
I highly, highly suggest that you do not make a translation of a translation (what is wrong with JP -> ENG?). Translating from JP to RUS already no doubt tears apart all the JP nuances of the game. Making a translation of a translation will only make it deviate further from the original.
It's not like RUS -> ENG is much - if any - easier, anyways. Even if it was a tiny bit easier than JP, this is not a shortcut that's worth taking.
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Saginomori-sensei: 「いや、それはどうだろうね……あー、女の子しかいない場所でこういうこと言うのはどうかと思うけど……」No, that's not necessarily the case. Ah, although if it was a place with only women then I'm not so sure but......御成敗式目の中には“歩いている女性に乱暴をしちゃいけない”っていう定めもあるからね」There does exist a law in the 御成敗式目 that says "You may not assault women who are walking". [i'm sure that law could be translated better somehow]
That's a bit off. It's more saying:
"Well, I wonder about what... Ah, I'm not sure if I should be saying this in a place where there are only girls, but..."
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Heh, sorry. I thought Koi Doll might be harder, but I thought Da Capo 3 would not be bad.
Well both songs try to sound poetic while not making very much sense.
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How bout Koisuru Doll to Omoi no Kiseki ~Poupee de Souhaits~
And Da Capo 3?
[sugar Pot] Koisuru Doll to Omoi no Kiseki ~Poupee de Souhaits~
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「重いって言ったら、承知しないわよ」「If you ever tell me I'm heavy again, I'll kill you.」...or.....「If you ever tell me I'm heavy again, I won't be as forgiving next time.」Are these translations accurate? The one above is the original translation, and the one below is my own translation. xDDD
I don't get why either translation has "again," but maybe that's just a context issue. Also, both lines pretty much say the exact same thing in essence, so I don't even know what you are trying to ask.
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I will translate Koisuru today, and maybe Da Capo III tomorrow. Don't expect the lyrics for either of them to make much sense, though (way to pick two songs that are a pain in the butt to decipher into coherent English).
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Thoughts on the Corpse Party series
in Visual Novel Talk
Posted
That. Game. Is. Messed. Up.