Darklord Rooke

Well, only cause you asked I wouldn’t be a good person to ask for what to include, for many reasons. I’ll list them for you: 1 – I like otome (so things like Hakuoki would be on there) 2 – I like gameplay VNs (so things like LittleWitch Romanesque for its excellent sim gameplay.) 3 – I like OELVN's, mostly because of the above two points (so stuff like Scheherazade would be on there. Then I'd try and push the boundaries to include Academagia, even though it's an interactive fiction/sim hybrid and not a visual novel/sim hybrid ) 4 – I like things to be logically consistent, so I’d either take a very narrow view of what a VN is and be consistent with that (which would generate complaints, as I think yours did when you didn't include gameplay?) or I’d take in a very wide view of what a VN is (which would mean Phoenix Wright will be on there…) I find your list to be a little inconsistent but I'll get to that in a minute. As you can see, my suggestions wouldn't be good suggestions for your list. My disagreements with your list: Well, you say you’re judging things on story only but you included Sengoku Rance. As a fan of Sengoku Rance I can tell you that almost all of the appeal of that game is its solid turn-based-strategy gameplay… and the sex scenes. In fact, I'd categorise it as a strategy game first, and a VN second. If you include Rance I'd ask why you haven't included Kamidori. Both don't have very good stories but are well received mainly because of the gameplay. Daibanchou – see above. You have things on there like Dangan Ronpa and 999 but not Phoenix Wright. I understand you’re probably using VNDB’s definitions, but they’re dreadfully inconsistent, which is part of the reason Fuwa should provide its own, liberal definitions. Phoenix Wright deserves a spot if Dangan Ronpa is on there imo. Speaking of which, I found 999 to be dreadfully overrated also. It has a bloated and repetitive storytelling style which didn’t appeal to me. WinkBlinkel kept trying to shove it down my throat cause I kept trying to shove Divinity: Original Sin down his throat. Neither of us were successful. The next two points are VERY opinion based: I hate Kira Kira with a passion because of the level of boredom it produced in me. The level was more than any human could bear… I think Dysfunctional Systems is grossly overrated. The art is nice but, once again, not a fan of the prose. But at the end of the day this is your list and I wouldn't worry that I disagree with it. You've read a lot more VNs then I have, and overall it's quite a solid list of good introductory VNs. Your taste just isn't compatible with my tastes (I don't like dark or gross stuff, so I won't be touching Saya no Uta with a 10 foot pole, for example.)

Ahaha, people are probably being a little bit too critical. There’s really not many objective standards for good fiction. There’s a few guidelines people can follow, but at the end of the day it’s impossible to produce a scientific style checklist that categorises the attributes necessary for great fiction. Any list that is produced will come down to a matter of taste and preference and would just be a guide, which is what Clephas’ list is. It’s a detailed guide produced by a very knowledgeable and experienced member of the forums for those looking for suggestions on what to read, which should be useful to most of the people interested in Visual Novels. Whether it will be useful to any individual is up in the air though. Heh, Kaguya’s 50 translated VNs you must read before you die is of undeniable use to the majority of people, but I disagree with the majority of it *insert raspberry here.* That I disagree with it doesn’t make it of any less use to those being introduced to the genre, though. Anyway my advice to Clephas is to just trust your gut and not to worry too much about producing criteria, because any attempt to quantify what makes great fiction always comes unstuck. For example, your guidelines could be interpreted to mean Dostoevsky wrote great fiction but not Tolstoy, who’s works were not as intellectual. Also, there is an often recited story on the internet (which originated from Arthur C Clarke,) of how Hemingway bet he could write a 6 word novel. It can’t be verified, but the result “For sale: Baby shoes, never worn” (one of the best examples of flash fiction) is probably an excellent example of how great stories just can’t be quantified in any set way.

Would have voted, but there were no troll options provided 5+5 wasn't an option on the poll.

Generally speaking? Their inability to produce decent prose in their target language. I can't speak for their accuracy, but a lot of fansubs are written badly enough to make my eye twitch. People tend to prefer them because they have less localisation, but I'm fairly sensitive to the quality of prose so I prefer the official localisations. (There are exceptions though.)

The Walking Dead: The type of Interactive Story I wish there was more of. Crisp writing and dialogue, choices which affect your journey in emotion producing ways, high production values and a post-apocalyptic setting. MORE PLEASE! Runner Up - Mass Effect 3: Bioware's games are all about the characters, usually. I loved to just walk around and talk to people over and over again until they ran out of things to say, started to repeat themselves, and was probably looking around for something to chuck at me. Combine this with fun shooter mechanics, awesome world-building, and a DLC which involved and this quickly became my favourite game of all time. Until Telltale revamped their Interactive Storytelling technique, that is.

EVE Online is for the serious MMO gamer

..... No shadow puppets

False. I am not Extremely Unfit The next person prefers meat/beef pies over sweet tasting pies.

True. I don’t like the route system in general. The next person believes Tiag originates from Varela.

False. As an impartial party I find Rooke’s statement to be totally soothing. The next person doesn’t like Little Busters and all the characters contained within.

True. I'm not "in" on the in-joke. The next person doesn't like Kud.

For a serious VN I thought Ever17 waffled around too much. I was seriously tempted to chuck it at a wall. I suppose that's just a personal preference, but God Almighty it's slow. That sort of stuff is alright for a slice of life novel, but for one with an actual plot..... *Nyah* to all Ever17 fans

I’m really tired today so I could be way off base, but I get the funny feeling that first poll is a little rigged. I can’t quite put my finger on where that feeling comes from, though

People can tell whatever story they wish, tis a free country. I don't like moeges but I have no problem with them being a part of the VN market, just like I don't like smutty romance novels but also don't have a problem with those books existing. PS: @Kaguya: The first poll has no "I love moeges so much I'm going to marry the concept and elope to the moon" option...

It was legitimate advice. RPGFan reviews PC Visual Novels (like Ever 17) and Adventure games (like Phoenix Wright, Ghost Trick and Hotel Dusk.) You have to dig a little because you can't sort by genre but it's a decent source if you're willing to go through the trouble. @Grep: Ghost Trick was made by the same people who made Phoenix Wright, so be sure to check that one out. Also Hotel Dusk. Both are on the DS.

I think the number of people who participate in this thread was a factor. But I'm starting to guess at the intentions of unknown people, so I'm gonna stop there.